The Truths Landlords Need Right Now

We unpack the most common landlord questions from forums and give clear, practical answers you can evidence. From who chooses the tenant to EPC rumors, deposit pitfalls, and rent rises, we share what to do, what to document, and what to avoid.

• landlord retains final say on tenant selection, no discrimination, consistent affordability criteria
• provide and certify safe cooking facilities, control installation, document compliance
• meter photos and timely notifications prevent liability for outgoing tenants’ utilities
• smoke and CO alarms must be restored promptly once notified, evidence all actions
• protect deposits within 30 days or face one to three times penalties per breach
• insured vs custodial deposit schemes, control versus simplicity trade-offs
• EPC only required when marketing, plan low-cost upgrades, watch 2030 policy shifts
• maintain gas safety during possession efforts, record all access attempts
• serve notices via email if permitted, plus hand delivery with timestamped photos
• raise rents annually with Section 13 and comparables, avoid painful catch-up jumps
• rent guarantee insurance covers arrears and legal costs, claim before 30 days, not retrospective

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Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Agenda
• 2:34 Who Picks The Tenant, Really
• 5:37 The Great Cooker Debate
• 10:15 Unpaid Utilities And Liability
• 12:15 Smoke Alarms: Duty And Evidence
• 15:36 Deposit Schemes And Penalties
• 20:54 EPC Reality And 2030 Rumors
• 27:20 Gas Safety During Possession Claims
• 30:00 Serving Notices: Email, Hand, Proof
• 34:12 Rent Increases, Section 13, Tribunal
• 41:05 Catching Up To Market Rent
• 48:10 Rent Guarantee Insurance: Worth It
• 54:36 Closing Thoughts And Next Steps

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:10

Hello and welcome to today's session. This is our lettings update and property management, uh, along with a lot of other things. And it's great to have Alison and Anthony here joining me here. Great to see you both. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_03: 0:23

Happy Wednesday, middle of the week. That's what it's all about. Nearly lunchtime, but no, it's lots and lots of exciting things happening that uh we need to make you aware of. So very, very good.

SPEAKER_01: 0:34

Brilliant stuff, brilliant stuff. So, what we do in these sessions is it's great because uh you guys normally come on and you've got something to talk about, which is always handy, and we're always learning as well. You know, with the renters right bill changing, renters write reform, you keep changing the names and everything all the time. But it is each week there's something new happening. But at the moment, obviously, you guys have a very successful Letin agency, and you also help investors to you know uh find properties, do property deals, and then you manage them afterwards as well. So you're in the thick of it, so to speak, and you've got a little special treat for us today, haven't you? With uh sort of landlords, FAQs, and a lot of different questions that you've heard people putting out there. Uh, Ali was saying just before we started this that she's a member of a lot of different forums and groups, and she sees a lot of questions and also a lot of nonsense being about out there. So we're gonna put some of that to rest in this session, aren't we? Fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_00: 1:32

Hopefully so.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33

Brilliant stuff, brilliant stuff. So if I leave it to you guys, basically, you've got the questions, you're gonna give us the right answers to these so that we can make sure that we uh remain compliant, yeah?

SPEAKER_03: 1:42

Sounds good, sounds good. Alison, over to you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45

Yeah, so these are all questions that have come from kind of the live questions that have come from forums on various social media platforms. And yeah, the reason, like I said, is I want to include them because I see so many answers that are either differing. Like you ask something and you get like five or six different opinions. And most of the time it's not like you say, it's nonsense, it's rubbish, it's not the right answer, it's kind of someone's opinion. So I think just be really careful about where you're getting your advice and where you're getting your questions answered. And I know like there's lots of kind of areas on your platform, Mark, where people are asked can ask questions, and we're happy to answer them anytime if anyone's got any letting questions. But yeah, so I've prepared a few today. So we're splitting them between ourselves. I think Ansi's gonna ask.

SPEAKER_03: 2:29

I got the easy ones, so I'm quite pleasing. My one's in sky blue. Okay, so first question. Alison in the hot seat for the first question. So you are a landlord with a fully managed service with your letting agent. Fantastic, as every landlord should do. Are you still able to pick the tenants that stay in your property? So I want that one, I want that, I don't want that one, I don't want that one. Can we do that now? That's the big question.

SPEAKER_00: 2:54

Yeah, so when you appoint a letting agency, you're still, you know, they're finding you a tenant, but it's not their decision who you put in the property. And I hear this quite often that letting agents have let the property, got the tenant moved in, and the landlord doesn't know anything about it, or you still have the ultimate say. So a letting agency should be finding those tenants, getting those applications, whether there's one, whether there's more than one, and putting them forward to you as the landlord. You then have that final say on who you accept or who you don't accept. A couple of things with this is obviously you can't discriminate. So I still get landlords say to me, I don't want housing benefit or universal credit. So you can't say that. We can't do that. Everybody has to kind of follow the same criteria. You can set your criteria in terms of affordability and what you want to accept with how much they're earning, whether that's through benefits income or whether that's through employment income, but you can't discriminate.

SPEAKER_03: 3:56

You kind of sort of the guarantor as well. They've got to have a, for example, if you need a guarantor, they haven't got sufficient income from you know, whether it be um their universal credit or their job, but a guarantor comes in, help them. But they've got to meet certain criteria as well. Because we had it quite recently, didn't we, with a tenant that applied, but unfortunately they didn't uh uh meet the big affordability, but then also their guarantor didn't either.

SPEAKER_00: 4:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 4:21

Which was very frustrating. But unfortunately, then yes, you know, that that's the route you have to go down as long as you're very clear from the start, that's what's important with that, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 4:28

And as the landlord, you are entitled to see any referencing checks that are done. So that's also another thing that it's like I've seen agents say, Oh no, it's got the tenant's information on or the applicant's information on, so you're not entitled to it. The contract is going to be between you and the applicant, the letters agency isn't involved, so it's still your decision. You have you are entitled to see those credit checks, reference checks. Strangely, a lot of the platforms that we use for the referencing will say that you can't share the information with the tenant. Which is weird. Even though it's about them. Even though it's about them. They say you can share it with the landlord, but not the tenant. So in that respect, if they if it flags up, they've got a CCJ, you can't tell them what it's showing up. You can just say you're failing up past.

SPEAKER_03: 5:19

They'll go back to the company that I've just done the reference with, and maybe they will be able to help perhaps. Or do those different credit checks that you can do, like ClearScore. I think it's one of the apps you can go on, then it can give you all the information out, all your whatever it may be your lending in your current situation. Okay, so here's the next one. Now this is a stumper. This is a negotiation, not a negotiation, it's this is a um discussion point, I think. This one. We're already discussing it, haven't we? Does a landlord legally need to provide a cooker?

SPEAKER_00: 5:47

So with this one, I saw this one on a on a this one asked on Facebook, and by the time I like got to this, it had 249 comments. I'm thinking, what's going on here? This is surely quite an obvious one. So then I was reading it, and for every question, every answer that said yes, you do need to have a cooker, there was one that says no, you don't, because of this, this, and this. So I thought, well, I'm gonna look into this a little bit more because my answer would have been yes, provide a cooker. So under the Homes Fitness for Habitation Act 2018, the wording is you need to provide facilities for preparation and cooking of food.

SPEAKER_03: 6:29

So from my point of view, I just interpret that as the cut, it's like there's the colour of the wall behind us.

SPEAKER_00: 6:36

Yeah. So my interpretation of it is just provide you're you're meeting with that. Other people would argue that you just need to provide the facilities as in the gap in the kitchen and the connections, I think, to to kind of work to be able to have that cooker housed, but it would be the tenant's responsibility to bring it in.

SPEAKER_03: 7:01

Yeah, microwave.

SPEAKER_00: 7:03

Yeah, or provide a microwave. I mean, from my point of view, if you're putting in a gas, whether it's gas cooker or electric cooker, you want to make sure that that is being input into your kitchen safely and properly, in line with all of the regulations. And for me, I'd rather know the background of that cooker where it's come from. So I would just do that myself. Because you need to make sure it's electrically safe or gas safe as well.

SPEAKER_03: 7:30

Part of the certificate, because in a lot of cases, you if it's an electric oven, it will have to be hardwired into the system. So it will almost have its own switch on the consumer unit fuse board as well. That's the lead it's gonna have to go to if you're putting something that powerful into your property. But realistically, you walk into a property, a lovely property. Wow, it's lovely. It's got no cooker.

SPEAKER_00: 7:52

But so strictly it's so I guess the answer to that is it's a grey area, which you could argue the point either way, from kind of on the basis that we're hopefully landlords that want to improve things, we want to offer our tenants a nice environment that they're gonna stay for a long time. I would say just provide a cooker and make sure it's all electrically safe or gas safe and hardwired in or however it needs connecting up properly.

SPEAKER_01: 8:20

Yes, absolutely. Because I I said on that one myself, I said I don't think you have to, because I I don't know, but like we said then, it would have to be professionally installed. So if you don't provide it, you've still got to provide it being safely checked and professionally installed. So yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? Because there are, I have seen people that have wanted to move in and bring their own cooker or buy a specific cooker because the cooker there is not good enough for them. And in which case, then, you know, that that's a choice, isn't it? You know, if they want to replace it, then what would be the best way to go about that then? Because obviously you would say, yes, you can replace it, but you'd replace it at your own expense. But then as a landlord, you'd like to know that it's been done professionally and they haven't just tried to do it themselves.

SPEAKER_03: 9:04

Again, yeah, it would then be very much under the your terms, not theirs. Yeah. Provided you with the facilities to cook your dinner. Fair enough, mattress, if it's got a springy mattress or something like that. Fine, okay, we've had it for a couple of years, but oven, but there you go.

SPEAKER_00: 9:17

Let me see, if it is gas, you do it will be on your gas safety certificate. So whether it's a tenants or not, you will have to certify that.

SPEAKER_03: 9:25

It's not just then the installation, it's then the certification afterwards as well, electrical gas.

SPEAKER_01: 9:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 9:31

So yeah, and I think the other thing to say on that is under the renters' rights bill, we are going to have the decent home standard. So hopefully, with the decent home standards, they'll start maybe making these grey areas a little bit more clearer and being a bit more specific. Because ultimately, I think most of us just want to know clearly yes or no.

SPEAKER_03: 9:49

Just give us what we need to do and we'll get off and do it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 9:52

Okay, then Ansna.

SPEAKER_03: 9:54

Here we go.

SPEAKER_00: 9:56

Tenants have left and there is an electric bill unpaid. Am I responsible as the landlord? Now, the reason this question was asked is because the energy company that this particular landlord was using had told them that it was their responsibility.

SPEAKER_03: 10:12

Okay. Key thing will be, and this is again, as we always emphasize with every tenancy, is that you back up everything that you do or that a tenant's done, and you make sure you do all your checks at the start and at the end. So when a tenant moves into a property, you'll do the inventory check, but the inventory clerk typically will take meter readings, or have photos, date stamped photos, as and when they then come and do the exit inspection, date stamped photos. They will have the actual meters themselves that will have the date that it was taken and the meter readings themselves. It's then the obviously then the obligation of if you want to make sure you're not going to be held liable for it, of informing the utility companies and the council tax that the tenant has vacated the property. If you can get a document that they sign on the exit inspection that also states that yes, I have moved out of the property or something that proves, for example, an email from when they gave notice to say they're going to move out on this day. Basically, it's almost like you're providing a case, a legal case, to send to the utility suppliers and the council tax to say that this tenant is no longer liable for the utilities. And this was the meter in it at the end. Now, should it be then that the property is vacant for a period of time? Yes, the landlord is responsible. Because unfortunately, there are still standing charges. But there'd be council tax, water, electric, gas. However, if it's just a case of move out one day, move in the next day, you can then say meter readings were the same and that the meter readings with the new person moving in. But the key thing again is dates-stamped photos of everything that you do, ensuring that when you then provide that to the utility company and any other proof, close the book. No problems at all, unless the property is vacant for a period of time.

SPEAKER_00: 11:53

And a lot of utility providers now ask for photos. They don't just accept you telling them it was 1578. They want that photo date stamped as well. So they do it.

SPEAKER_03: 12:08

Okay, next question. Now then the smoke alarm was present and working when a tenant moved in. Because we all know when a tenant moves into the property, the start of their tenancy, the first day that their tenancy starts, not when they move in, the day their tenancy starts, you have to do a smoke test within the property and carbon monoxide if applicable. Now, on a recent inspection, it was noted that the smoke alarm had been removed. Sounds suspicious. Who's responsible to get it replaced? Good question. I like that one.

SPEAKER_00: 12:41

Okay, so this falls under the smoke and carbon monoxide alarm regulations that were amended in 2022. And part of that amendment was that it is landlords' responsibility once they've been notified or once they've found out about a fault with a smoke alarm or carbon monoxide alarm, it's their responsibility to get it sorted and back up and running or fixed, whatever they need to do. In terms of charges and the cost of that, that's up for debate. But it's a landlord's responsibility. So if you go to your property and you see that the tenants taking it down or taking the battery out, you need to get that sorted.

SPEAKER_03: 13:24

And make sure that you've got proof. You did it, you found out, you acted, you resolved it. Whether that be an invoice, photos, dates now photos, anything and everything. Back up everything that you do to ensure that you have made sure that you've made that property safe again. Again, if you do a periodic visit, you find that out again. You know, or even for I know for some example with the wide smoke alarms, you get that beep every minute. That's the backup battery you need to replace. And there's the rectangular batteries, I'm not sure whether what they're called, um, but are just the rectangle batteries. And they're sometimes a bit of a what's it to get them off the roof to be able to change the batteries. But that's what you've got to do. If they're beeping every minute, and then you get a tenant that calls you up and says, Oh, I kept on beeping, I had to take it off. What if there's a fire? Yes, make sure you prove you do prove you did what you did.

SPEAKER_01: 14:13

Would you be able to charge the tenant then if they damaged it? Or they like you said in in the initial question, it was there, it was working, it was just in a house, somebody took it off the wall or off the ceiling, should I say, and got rid of it, and you had to replace it, but you know full well that the tenant's done that. Obviously, it's a landlord's responsibility to make sure it's there, but if the tenants aren't playing ball, what's what would you like to do?

SPEAKER_03: 14:35

Because it's like the inventory at the start, if it was the end of the tenants, so you'd charge them for it.

SPEAKER_00: 14:39

Yeah, yeah. So I would charge them, I would add that onto their account. Whether you'd get the payment, um, it's another matter, but then I would take it out of their deposit at the end.

SPEAKER_03: 14:48

Key thing for a landlord is making that place as safe as it can be and making sure that all those facilities that are there to keep the tenants safe are there. Because I know that if a fire, heaven forbid, happens in that property, you're covered. Act on it immediately. That's not just a case, I'll get it done at the weekend. No, no.

SPEAKER_00: 15:04

And think it's just also having those conversations with your tenant and making sure they know it's really important not to take the battery out or take it down and it's there for a reason.

unknown: 15:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 15:16

Because yeah, you find it, you do inspections and tenants have periodic visits.

SPEAKER_03: 15:21

This is why periodic visits again. So you outsource it. Periodic visits are very, very, very important.

SPEAKER_00: 15:28

Yeah.

unknown: 15:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 15:29

And having your inventory at the start to show that you did provide them. Okay, next up. Onto deposits. Yes. So deposits, most things, if you haven't got quite right at the start of the tenancy, can be fixed. Deposits, it's a lot more tricky. There's more regulations surrounding. So the question that was asked, not saying that this landlord was in this position, but it looks like they were. What could happen?

SPEAKER_02: 15:59

My mate, this has happened to my mate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:05

Yeah. What could happen if I don't register a tenant's deposit with a government-approved deposit protection scheme that give them the deposit back when they leave? Okay.

SPEAKER_03: 16:15

Oh, dear, oh dear. Do it right from the start. Okay. So the key thing, running over a few extra points here with it. So you receive the money, you have to insure it within 30 days of receiving the money. Not 30 days of the tendency starting. So, for example, I'm moving in in September, so I just did it in August. No, 30 days of receiving the funds, you have to insure it. Now, there are different types of insurance where you've got insurance, insured deposits, or you've got custodial deposits. So custodial is where you give the money to the deposit protection scheme. So these are government approved deposit protection schemes. So you've got DPS, deposit protection service, you've got TDS. I'm not sure what TDS stands for, deposit protection.

SPEAKER_00: 16:57

Tennancy deposits.

SPEAKER_03: 16:58

Tennancy deposit scheme. There we go. Or my deposits, which is an insurance bond, and they also do custodial as well. So you've got custodial or insurance. So custodial means you give the money to the insurance company. Insurance means you keep the money, but you have to make sure that that money is then kept in a bank account, which is separately account for just for deposits, because that is tenant's money, it's not your money. Okay. And typically then the insurance will then do an audit periodically to make sure that you are then having the right amount of money in there in comparison to your insurance policy. Now, with regards to different avenues, so the insured, for example, with my deposits, you will pay a fee for every deposit that you insure. Now I know with deposit protection service, you don't pay a fee, they keep the money. So one would assume that they're making money off the interest that they make. Not accusing, not saying that this is the case, but it may well be they've got that money in the bank account and it makes interest money every month, so they don't charge you for a fee insuring it. Now come the end of a tenancy, insurance. We're with our cell, we use an insurance with my deposits. It's far easier because you're in control of the funds. You can give them back the money each and every end of tenancy. And if there's any sort of dispute, then there can just be that amount of money that's kept as far as what's in dispute. With the custodial deposits, it's a case of no money is being released until both parties agree. So if you're looking to get money away from the deposit protection scheme, as we understand, which is custodial, you'll have to wait until you get them until both parties agree. Whereas with an insured, you're kind of in control other than what's in dispute. Now, should it be you haven't insured that difference? Sorry, I've gone around the houses there, but just a bit of extra stuff. That's good. But if you've not insured, if you're not basically insured, so going back to the fact that you're going to give the deposit, but you haven't insured it, the tenants could come back and claim an additional one to three times what the deposit is because you didn't insure their deposit. There could be a court hearing that says my landlord didn't insure my deposit, I've given my deposit back, but I wish to claim the fact that they didn't do as they should have done as far as the tenancy is concerned, and insuring my deposit. So one to three times the deposit that they could actually be claiming from you.

SPEAKER_00: 19:12

And that's per breach. So if you've had a tenant in there for three years and you've renewed their tenancy every 12 months, that could count as three breaches. So three separate incidents where you've not secured the deposit. So you could potentially have a very, very big bill. So register the deposit, or you don't have to take a deposit.

SPEAKER_03: 19:38

Literally, we we're registered with UK, which means that we pay, gosh, what is it?£15, 18 pounds for deposit insurance scheme per tenant, basically. So in comparison to one or two or three times what your actual breach is going to be, it's worth doing it. And if you do DPS, it's free. It's just a longer-winded process of getting your money back at the end. Up to you.

SPEAKER_00: 20:02

Okay, so the next question, because Anthony went road. Oh, I went around the house as already. On the last one, he's kind of answered it already. So, what deposit scheme would you recommend?

SPEAKER_03: 20:14

As long as you insure your deposit, you're doing it by the book, which is great. For us as a letting agency, we've got hundreds and hundreds of tenancies. For us, insurance through my deposits makes it a lot easier. Yes, it's a cost, but we are in control of the funds there. We get audited each and every year by UK Allah for client money protection and the ombudsman, all these different things, basically to say that your deposit bank account is exactly the same as what your My Deposits account says, which is insured, and we get ordered each and every year, which means that we then maintain all the things that we need to maintain. Now, as far as you know, if you've got it with custodia where they keep the money, then no worries, they've got the money. It just, you know, basically you come the end of a tenancy with DPS, for example, you have to enter a code, as does the tenant, and they then have to agree with what deductions are. It can be a little bit more of a long-winded process because to a degree the tenants are more in control in that route. Whereas if it's insured, you've got the funds, you can release the funds and you can agree between parties, and the money can be with them that day. If it's custodial, there may well be there's a delay in getting that funds to it. I mean, I'm not sure what what pro what um deposit schemes do you tend to use? We use DPS. Yeah, just use DPS.

SPEAKER_01: 21:24

I've always thought it's a lot easier for me to be able to just put that somewhere else, let them deal with it all and everything. And to be fair, I don't have that many deposits, so to speak, like what to what you guys do, because I I did weigh it up. Is it more cost-effective for me to basically have a separate account, like you're saying, have those deposits in there, and then at least we're making a bit of interest on those as well, which is you know, it's all about in business and things and and more control. But no, for me, I've just thought keep it simple, keep it short and sweet. But it is it is difficult. Well, it's it is difficult, it's a pain if there is a problem. So if they dispute it, and you cannot get the dispute, and it goes to the DPS and all that, it takes forever, absolutely takes forever.

SPEAKER_00: 22:07

I mean, as the insured schemes, it still can go to dispute, yeah. So, and it still is a long-winded process when it goes. But I mean, we have most of ours in my deposits, we have a few that are under DPS. It's easier to transfer a DPS deposit, yes, just to a new person. So that's you kind of just keep that sometimes. But equally, we have a couple on there that actually the tenants are entitled to their full deposit back, but they've never put their code in.

SPEAKER_03: 22:38

Right. About 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_00: 22:40

Yeah, still there.

SPEAKER_03: 22:43

Your money's there for you if you want it and buy an internal international street.

SPEAKER_00: 22:46

Doesn't usually happen, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 22:49

No, right, okay. I'm gonna take a deep breath because this is a long question this one. Um so I have a property rented out and it currently has an EPC and energy performance certificate rating D. Now, current EPC expires next month, and I will then get this redone. Now, since the last one was done, I've actually had some work done. So the actual EPC rating is going to improve to a D rating. Now, this does fall short of new legislation coming where rental properties need to be a C rating. Where do I stand? Am I okay to continue renting to the same tenant? What will happen if I get a new tenant? Over to you. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00: 23:34

There's a few things here. So, firstly, the property is currently rented and you've got an EPC, but it's due to expire. At the moment, the tenant's not looking to move out of the property. So, strictly speaking, you only need an EPC when you are advertising your property for sale or for rent. So you don't need if it expires during a tenancy, you don't have to go and get it done, unlike the gas and electricity, they obviously have that expiry date you have to meet with. EPC, it's a bit different in that you don't need to do it unless you are re-advertising it. I would say good practice when that expiry date comes up, just get it done. A couple of reasons for that. Firstly, it's every 10 years, so it's not a high cost, it's not like you're not really by leaving it by not that 40-50 pounds more expensive. It's not like a big cost, but your tenant's going to give you notice at some point in the future. And you want to be in a position where you can get it back on the market. You don't want to then have to be booking an EPC, you're waiting that week or two weeks, or then waiting for the certificate in order to be able to get that online. So I think get it done. Also, further down the line, that tenant relationship that you might think is really good at the moment, they might not allow you access to do it. So I'd just say get it done for the sake of the 50 quid or whatever it costs.

SPEAKER_03: 24:59

It's also just thinking it through as well. If you're looking to then give I'm going on a slight side angle here, but if you're looking to give notice to a tenant to vacate and certain things need to be valid, I know when they moved in, they've got a valid EPC, but again, it's it's another avenue that you're trying to close off, another door that you're closing off to make sure that all of your safety certification is valid.

SPEAKER_00: 25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 25:20

Another angle.

SPEAKER_00: 25:21

Yeah, I mean, uh, yeah, as long as the EPC was valid when you they moved in, you don't necessarily need to get it redone. But I just say for the sake of it, just get it done in that respect. So this lady doesn't have to get it done if she doesn't want to, or man, I can't remember if it was lady or man, but they good practice, they're doing the right thing by getting it done. Now there is legislation coming in 2030. At the moment, it's set to come in where you will need to have your rental properties to a C rating. It's E rating at the moment, but it will be C rating, which I think is gonna, it's gonna cause big problems.

SPEAKER_03: 26:00

Right, I want it now. Full stop. Well, they haven't ever seen it for the last we'll see, like parents say it'll happen soon.

SPEAKER_00: 26:07

So a couple of things with this is that obviously it's set to 2030 is the date. So there's a lot of that's five years away. There's a lot that can change in that time. So we've got a labour government. Yeah, so we could change governments again. Um, so that's one thing. So I'm not saying it's not going to come in because it might come in, but a lot could change. Also, they are currently reviewing the rating system, so I wouldn't hurry out and do changes now.

SPEAKER_03: 26:36

No, even minor ones. I mean, it's like little things like on radiator, thermostats on radiators, light bulbs, just do them, and they can have a massive impact. Just about sniff you over the line, it could not be just little things you can do.

SPEAKER_00: 26:50

So I'd say if you're if you're kind of hovering at kind of high D, you're very near to getting a C, and you look at your EPC report and you can see, oh, if I do change a few bulbs, saying very poor for like energy efficiency bulbs, if you can get it up to a C just by doing the lower cost things that they've suggested, do it.

SPEAKER_03: 27:08

But if you're kind of the next step is spending lots and lots of money, I'd hang fire because we look for grants because grants are always popping up around the corner as well for different types of property. So if you're getting government grants out there that are giving free stuff like insulation and different things like that, that could well pop up. Because I know we had that a couple of years ago, and then regularly have different people popping up saying, depending upon the circumstances of your tenants, you may well be eligible for a government grant for X or Y.

SPEAKER_00: 27:40

And then the other thing, so where does this lady stand with the tenant now? So you can still rent the property out. The legislation isn't effective now. So up until that date where the legislation is effective, you don't have to worry. You can carry on renting your property out. So you don't have to worry about that. When the legislation does come in, if it does come in, obviously they're gonna say a date. Now, previously, when we had it, the minimum rating is an e-rating, it was staggered. So I think new tenancies were a certain date. The year later, it was existing tenancies. Whether they'll do something similar, I don't know. But there has to be there has to be a bit of a kind of crossover period, I would imagine, because they're not going to want you to be given notice to your tenants because you're not needing with the EPC ratings. I suspect similar to the Conservative government, there'll probably be a bit of a U-turn or backtrack or something that will come in to completely change this before 2030. That's my opinion. I'm obviously not don't quote me on that. But yeah, I'd just say if you can get your EPC rating up, do it.

SPEAKER_03: 28:46

I think the key thing, be aware. And if you can get the little things done, do them, but otherwise, don't worry about it yet. Yeah, just be aware of what work you will have to do and keep an eye on what changes could happen.

SPEAKER_00: 28:56

I think the average the average EPC rating across the country is D. So this will affect a lot of landlords, and I think certain areas probably more affected depending on the age of the property and the style of the property as well.

SPEAKER_01: 29:08

So I used to live in a lot of listed buildings in Bath, and you couldn't change the windows, they would not let you change the windows out. So we actually used we used to have a film like it was like cellophane or something on the inside of the windows at winter to keep the warmth in because you used to get ice on the inside, but you weren't allowed to put double glazing in or anything. So those those properties or those types of properties that you're not allowed to actually implement what you might need to really give it that APC rate. And it's it's good. I I think it'll be swayed that they want ideally everybody there, but it could be a bit of a case by case sort of scenario if they do actually bring it in, but I still think they'll put it back.

SPEAKER_03: 29:46

I remember living it me. I meant my first property me and my brother bought, uh, which we lived in in Lemmington Spa lovely, very similar to Bath in the fact of the these lovely old sash windows. I just said it was like tracing paper windows, honestly. But then we didn't have gas central heating, it was all electric storage heaters as well. My my electric bill. Oh my word, I have my head in my hands when I look at what that electric bill was now. And I'm like, oh yeah, but you've not got gas. I said, I don't care. Trying to keep obviously really, really high ceilings, big rooms, big old houses as they used to be. So yes.

SPEAKER_00: 30:17

It was covered. We used to get those old gas.

SPEAKER_03: 30:20

I'm running at Allison back in 2006. Gosh, all those years ago. Yeah, long time ago.

SPEAKER_00: 30:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 30:24

Blankets, yes, it was blanket and duvet film night. Dovet on the stove. Right, next question.

SPEAKER_00: 30:31

So, yeah, another one for certificate. So, this person's having to go down the legal route to get back possession when their tenant hasn't moved out after they've been provided notice. The gas safety certificate expires soon. And do they need to get it renewed as they're going through that legal process?

SPEAKER_03: 30:48

Absolutely. Never let your gas expire. It'll come and bite you in the bum. Um, what I will say as well, in some cases, if tenants don't give access, you can't just go and do it. In the end, what I will say to you is your gas technician and your cell should be keeping in regular contact with the tenants and making every, every effort to get into that property to make it gas safe. If the tenant's denying you access, you can't do anything more than you're doing. Just keep on trying and have multiple people trying to get access to the property, emphasising their safety. Now, if you're in, you know, if you're bickering with regard to a tenant who doesn't want to vacate, then it may or be they're just going to be awkward and difficult. But all I'll say is cover your back as best as you possibly can do and make sure you've got a gas safety certificate. And also proof of every chase that you've done, as well as your gas technician as well, to ensure that you're covering your back on it. Because should it come to then having to then go to court to get possession or whatever it may or be, or an application, accelerated possession, for example, which you can still do, you'll provide all the safety search and you'll say, Unfortunately, this one has expired. But here's the proof that we have now and made every effort to try and gain again, back up everything you do, make sure you've got everything proven and everything that you've done. And if you've done that like a legal case, you're covering your back on it. Then it shouldn't then impact upon your ability to get that position, should it be you go to court. But always, always maintain safety certification above everything. So health and safety of attendance is paramount.

SPEAKER_00: 32:19

I think it's this comes back to how you treat your contractors. So once you've found a good contractor, you know, keep them on your side because stuff like this, and you want them to just pop out maybe in between jobs just to see if they can get in to do the gas safety or just to kind of help you record that there's attempts being made. You want them on your side.

SPEAKER_03: 32:43

The flip side of that harassment. Oh, give me a break. Come on. Trying to make your house safe. Okay, moving on to the next one now, kind of linked with this one is notices. So can I serve notices such as a section 21, whilst we can, or a section 13 notice by email?

SPEAKER_00: 33:03

So yes, if you've stated in your tenancy agreement that it's an acceptable form of communication. So in our tenancy agreement, we have that we can well saying this the other week, weren't we? We can save on everything that we can serve it by fax. Somebody want to have a fax machine, but don't you have a fax machine? Um but yeah, as long as it's in the tenancy agreement, how you service it. So we have a section that it says that we can serve things by email, and we have the tenant's email address recorded in the tenancy agreement. And we see part of that is that if they change it, you want them to notify you.

SPEAKER_03: 33:46

However, we still deliver a lot of stuff by hand and get date stamped photos, um, and then send that back to the WhatsApp group, which we've got as far as our company uh WhatsApp group to ensure that we've then got a documented proof we were there on the day. Here's the photo date stamp photo of it. Actually, out I'm taking a picture of you outside the property, looking down the road of the property, delivering it through the letter box at the property. If you can get the tenant to sign for it, even better, all these different things, and then you then send it by email as well. So you've then got multiple angles. So I know when I've been to court in the past and the tenant has said, Oh, I didn't receive it, I said, right, well, I've got a photo of me at the property or a photo of me putting it through your letterbox. I've then got an email that I sent to you that you replied to me by it on another occasion stating that. So I and then the judge is then stating, you have made every effort to ensure that this tenant has received it. And I know I went to court quite recently, actually, and a tenant stated that they didn't receive the notice. However, they then received notice that they're going to court and they they were going to court in a couple of weeks later. And they says, Well, you've had more than sufficient time to act upon the fact of the reasons why you are being asked to you know relinquish your tenancy at the property. So uh make every effort to make sure. And if it's a long way away a distance, then a recorded mail as well as another avenue, as well as email. But what I will say is if you're giving notice, for example, if it's a section 21, which you can do at the moment, you've given a two months notice, two months and a week. So you've given the extra period for that property to land on their doorstep, admittedly, or two weeks and a half a week, three or four days, whatever it may or be. Do everything you can, go the extra mile to ensure that you've covered your your your yourself to ensure that that tenant has received it and that they've if they get it two days, that means that they've had two months and a day notice if it's landed on their doorstep on that. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? So you've given them over two months notice, but it means that you've covered your back on that side of things.

SPEAKER_00: 35:45

So I think, yeah, it's a good, it's good to have that clause in your tenants' agreements that you can serve things via your email because that's your backup. Yes. But tenants change email addresses, so I wouldn't rely on just email. I would serve it, like under others. I'd be careful about just doing recorded delivery because it on occasions as well. Yeah, they might not if they kind of know what's coming, some may not sign it. I've also had I saw recently somebody said that they signed for the envelope, but when they got it, the envelope was actually already opened and empty. Oh so just having that backup, you can say, well, I also served it by email.

SPEAKER_03: 36:24

Anything everywhere, because it means then you've gone the extra mile. And the fact that I haven't been to court recently and actually had the judge, he's blatantly a landlord. He gave us possession. It was wonderful. Okay, next question for you, Ali. I was told that the renter's rights bill comes into force. A landlord won't be able to increase the rent unless they have agreement from the tenant. So you wanted to increase the rent, but the tenant has to agree that they're happy for the increase. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00: 36:57

No, no. So there are rules coming in around increasing the rent, which I think we've already spoken about in previous sessions, but you will be able to increase the rent once per year, up to market rent, two months notice.

SPEAKER_03: 37:15

To the current tenant to the same tenant.

SPEAKER_00: 37:18

Two months notice, and it has to be done via a section 13 notice, which is the rent increase notice. As part of that notice, there's guidelines on how the tenant can dispute it if they don't agree with it. Now, hopefully, the first point of call will be to have a discussion with with the landlord to see if there's any middle ground. But if they want to, they can go to a tribunal and a tribunal will then sit in the middle and decide if it's market rent or not. So you can still increase the rent. It might be a little bit trickier under the renters' rights bill. There might be a few more kind of stumbling blocks, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 37:53

I think we're kind of hoping with that though, aren't we, that there'll be some sort of sieving process by the by the organiser or the group that are going to actually make the decision on what rent is acceptable or not. So, for example, if you put something up by 50 quid and the market rent in the area, they kind of proof it almost rather than going to a tribunal. They'll say, Oh, come on, that's more than reasonable. It may well be if it goes up by a certain percentage, you'd hope they'd put some sort of additional criteria in there. I don't know, but there's nothing that's been expanded upon yet on it. You can't just say, I don't accept£20 extra on a on a on a house. You know what I'm trying to say. But hey, you never know. The government may well say no, if you have to go to the tribunal, it's going to take forever. We shall see. But that would seem a sensible process, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 38:40

When you're putting up somebody's rent, do they have to sign anything to say that they agree?

unknown: 38:45

No.

SPEAKER_03: 38:45

Unless they're doing a renewal at the moment, whilst you can do renewals and a new tenancy terms and conditions. Um, again, you're just sending them a new well, in fact, no, if they're yeah, in fact, that's a yes. If they're committing to a new fixed term at the moment, yes, they'll have to sign a new tenancy agreement that states what the new new terms of their new tenancy is and their new rent if and their new fixed period. However, if you're just doing a section 13, which is telling them that their rent is going up, no, they don't need to sign anything.

SPEAKER_01: 39:12

Yeah, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00: 39:13

I think, I mean, at the moment, without the renters' rights will coming in, at the moment you can have that conversation with the tenant, decide amicably between yourselves, you're going to increase it by 30, 50 quid.

SPEAKER_03: 39:22

By email.

SPEAKER_00: 39:23

And to have it, have it agree, well, either email or a discussion, and that's that's absolutely fine. But my only thing with that is if you're having that discussion a month in advance and they say, Yeah, yeah, that's fine, and then they don't pay it, obviously it's then so we section 13. Yeah, kind of we've we've always this isn't a big change in terms of the way we serve sec sec way we serve increases because we always use a section 13, just we cover ourselves so there's no delay further down the line if the tenant decides that although they've accepted it, they then decide they don't accept it. Um so we always serve a section 13 anyway. And I think that just covers that.

SPEAKER_03: 40:00

That kind of covers the next question as well. I can't can you believe this? She's having a a dig at me for jumping and side.

SPEAKER_00: 40:07

Well, the next question next question is what is the best way to bring up rents? So bring rents up to market rent. And the background behind this is I was seeing this is just actually not a specific, it was quite a few that I was seeing. And what it was was the landlords had got themselves into a situation where they were well below like half the market rent or you know, a good like new hundred pounds. And they were asking, like, how do I go about it? Should I just do like this and this? And how basically, how do I go about now increasing the rent?

SPEAKER_03: 40:42

Okay, right. So, kind of what we've just covered there. Whilst you can, if you wish to, you can do something called a renewal, which is basically signing the tenants up to new terms and conditions, which then says what their rent is going up to. Now, as with the renters' rights, but all tenancies may all become periodic immediately. It may all not happen until May next year. Who knows? It may all be your committee of another six months, and that's what you want them to do. So you've got that opportunity at the moment to be able to increase rents by agreeing a new rent and saying this is your new rent, and they then sign a new document that says that. Now, what I would always back up any rent increases with is here's what other things are renting for in close proximity. Similar profile, similar looking property, similar location. This is what they're renting for. And if you're a landlord that's got their head screwed on, you would make sure then that you say, Look, I'm gonna look after you guys. You've been good tenants. I'm not gonna put it up quite as much. So we're gonna put up with£75, I'm gonna put it up by£60. So you're that they'll then say, Oh, that's really nice of it. Great, happy to sign this. You're kind of incentivizing them in some way. They want then security, the fact they've got their property. Looks great. The other avenue then is if they don't agree, you can then issue a section 13. Because if they don't agree with it, then you just say, right, well look, you know, if you don't want to do it, or if they just don't want to, they don't know what they're going to do, but you want to put their rent up, you can issue them with a section 13 notice. Again, you can get the template and you can issue them with the notice again. Make sure you've got proof that you delivered it, proof that you issued it, photos, all these different things, and send it by email saying we are issuing this notice. Obviously, you don't want to commit to a new period, but the landlord wants to increase your rent. Here is notice that on your next rent due, you need to give them currently over a month's notice. Isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 42:21

It's a month's date.

SPEAKER_03: 42:22

One month's notice with a section 13 at the moment.

SPEAKER_00: 42:24

From the rent pay in line with the rent pay.

SPEAKER_03: 42:27

So, for example, if their rent due is on the first of the month, so for example, on the 28th of the month before, so for example, if it's the first of September, on the 28th of July, you're issuing that notice, that means you're giving them over a month's notice that you're going there. And again, giving them an extra couple of days on top of the actual month that you're giving them the notice of again, you're covering, you're making sure giving more than enough notice. And then you can then agree between parties. It may well be if you're going to be liaising backwards and forwards on it, if it's a renewal, you may want to start doing it six weeks before. You know what I tried to say, making sure you've covered your back on it. Now, I'd I'd always justify it by sending them a little report that says, look, this is what other markets are going for. So you're kind of preempting objections, you're closing that door, if you understand. You're trying to close this, a close a sale almost for the rents that are going up. That's the avenue that I always tend to go down on it to ensure that your rents then get increased by the amounts you want to give them increased by. Now, as Alison's already said, you can only do it once every 12 months with the same tenant. However, if a tenant moves out, you can put your rent to what you like with increase. Anything else you want to add on that?

SPEAKER_00: 43:32

Just I think a lot of the people that were asking these questions was because they'd fell so far behind with the rent increases, and then it was more of a they feel bad, what's the best way to go about it? And the answer is there's not a good way to go about it.

SPEAKER_03: 43:45

Which is why renewing getting those rents from every year. Oh no, there've been lovely tenants, though they they do the cleaning, it's so lovely when I go around and see them. Get the rent up, get the rent to what it should be. It's doing them a favour as well as yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 43:58

And you you'd you kind of you think in your head, you're saying, oh, I haven't increased the rent for four years, so I'm increasing the rent now, but they'll think it's gone up so much. Oh, it's gone up, but oh, I haven't had the rent increase for the last few years. They don't think like that. We don't the most pushback we get is on the ones that don't have the regular increases, and then it's that little bit higher than what they're perhaps.

SPEAKER_03: 44:20

And then they want to go and try and find somewhere else. And in particular when you've got tenants, for example, on universal credit. And we've had a situation recently where this landlord had agreed to sell, they said they'd move out, but then they're trying to get somewhere else, and the rent had been reasonable, but then they're looking elsewhere and there's a lot higher elsewhere. Uh yeah. Yeah. It lengthens the sale process, let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_00: 44:44

I think, yeah. I mean, that there's there was no right answer to this or no good answer. It is you just have to do it. You have to do it, whether you want to do it kind of some now and then some next year.

SPEAKER_03: 44:55

Hence you're the sweet nerve saying it's not going as much as other houses for the last at the moment. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 45:01

I think I think what you guys have always said as well is you're not doing your tenants any favors by not doing it. You think you are, but you're not. And in the long run, it's a headache because all of a sudden, like you say, it's that big increase. That's all they see. They don't think, oh, they looked after me for the last you know three or four years by not doing so. They just think, well, why all of a sudden have they put their rent rights up and it gets people's backs up, doesn't it? Whereas if you sort of know each year it's just going steady, we're keeping it below market rate or whatever you want to do, you know, it's just going up by this. A lot of the times it's quite nice if it's justified as well. Insurances have gone up, and it's just so we're just staying in line with everything else. That's all it is. We know the cost of living is more expensive. It's easy to comprehend, in it, it's easy for people to compute.

unknown: 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 45:42

I know when my dad, um, with his portfolio, um, he'd had his interest rates low with mortgage works and a number of other ones for many, many years because he'd had them for a while, but he remortgaged them a couple of years ago, and the interest rates were awful lot higher than they were. And he's come to his tenants and he's just said, Look, I'm really sorry. You know, I've looked after you for these number of years. However, and I've given you rent, I've increased your rents, but they've been slightly lower, potentially, because of the fact of you know, at my end, uh there's not been as high a cost, and I wanted to look after you. However, unfortunately, my costs are increasing. I'm not going to pay you to stay in my property. I want you to pay me rent. That's going to make me some money to a degree. And he put the rents, he said, look, either I you move out and sell I I sell it, either you buy it off me, or I put your rent up to what the market rent is, and he then justified each and every one. And I think all bar two or three.

SPEAKER_00: 46:34

There's what one went to tribunal and she actually said, I don't even I don't think it's unfair, but I just she said it's such a big increase, I can't afford it. Yeah. Although once it went to a tribunal and it was deemed it was the increase, she has managed to afford it.

SPEAKER_03: 46:51

Um or two got sold, but the remainder then said, Nope, that's absolutely justified. So don't sit there thinking, you know, as long as you justify it, is it control the controllables and the fact that these are uncontrollable changes that you can't, you know. I I I if I don't get the rent, then it's not going to even cover the mortgage, I have to do this. And it was all received very very amicably, which is good. So don't think it'll all be seen as a bad thing. Okay, one more last question.

SPEAKER_00: 47:16

So last question, there were a few questions on forums about rent guarantee insurance. Landlords asking whether they think it's worth it, who's got it and whether they think it's worth it.

SPEAKER_03: 47:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 47:27

So is rent guarantee insurance worth it?

SPEAKER_03: 47:29

And legal cover, I think the I'd admit on that one as well. For me, I think it's a very, very good tool to have in your toolkit. It's, for example, the one that we offer for our managed landlords is 3% plus VAT of their rent. So, for example, if you're being charged 10% for a typical single-let property, it's going to cost you then 13% plus VAT, which is I'm not working out the math with the VAT on top. But yes, it's going to cost you that much. 6%. 3.6%. So 13. Well, yeah, okay. You know what I'm trying to say. So you may think, oh, I'm paying a little bit more. However, when all of a sudden a tenant who is an angel that moves in at the start comes, loses their job, can't pay the rent, all of a sudden they're, you know, they're communicating with you, but they can't pay the rent. And all of a sudden they start having to, you know, claim universal credit, they can't do this, they can't do that, you're not getting your rent. Now, with the policy that we offer, the first month's rent is the excess. But then, following that, until you get back possession of that property, the rent is fully covered. And then, in addition to that, once you get back possession of the property, you need to do some work on it perhaps for three months after you've got back possession, you get 75% of the rent until the point at which you relet the property. That's what the cover covers you. Now, we've had a number of occasions where we've made claims and they've it's all gone to plan. And the landlords have sat there thinking, my God, I'm so glad I did it. It's not for everybody. I'm not trying to make a sales pitch for this. I'd probably say we've got 40% of our landlords that have got the cover, 40 to 50%. Not everybody's got it. And some landlords that have got, you know, HMO rooms, they say, Oh, it's fine, it's not too much, you know. If one person doesn't pay, it's not hitting as hard. Whereas the big properties, and I know we had one particular situation where a tenant had claimed to be almost an angel when they moved in, and it didn't turn out quite that way. And we eventually managed to get into the property to find out potentially what they've been doing in the property. But the landlord was so delighted that he had rent cover, it was£1,400 a month rent, which times that by the amount of time it then costs to get back possession officially and all these different things. So, yes, I would recommend it. There's different suppliers, there's different policies, different schemes. But then the fact of that they will issue the notices, they will go to court with a legal representative, they will pay for the court fees. If you need to get a bailiff, a bailiff is covered as well. Um, and your rent is covered this whole period of time until you get back possession bar that first month, which is usually covered by the deposit anyway. It it may well cost you a little bit to extra your margins, but we have insurance for anything and everything, why don't have rent guarantee and legal cover.

SPEAKER_01: 50:13

Yeah. That's what I think it's going to become more and more popular as well with the new legislations and changes that are coming in. I know we're certainly looking at it all now because you know, when we get new tenancies in, that's what we want to be putting them through that as well to see if we can get insurance through the people. So not only do they pass the credit references and stuff, but we can actually insure them as well.

SPEAKER_03: 50:32

It's the all-sting and all dancing credit reference that we have to do to get the credit cover with them. Uh, so the the the um rental cover with them guarantee, but it means that you've, yes, they're they're fully fledged, they're a good one sort of tenant. Um and that circumstances you can't you can't vouch for when the situation's changed, but um, it makes you as covered as you can be then. So it means that you've got no worries then that rent's not being covered apart from when it's empty.

SPEAKER_00: 50:56

I think I was having a conversation with uh landlord about it the other day, and I said Tim, there's nothing the scheme that we work with, you can cancel it at any time. You have to obviously give a month's notice or whatever, but you can cancel it. So you could, you know, even do it for the first six months of a tenancy, and then if you're happy that it's going well, you think you're not gonna have any problems, then you could consider cancelling it. You don't have to keep it indefinitely. I mean, it it's it's tricky, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03: 51:24

Because you don't a good tenant can suddenly turn bad, like if they lose their job, it's one of those, it's usually problems do happen within the first it can impact on your cash flow, it's all tax deductible, but it can impact upon your cash flow for that particular property for whilst you've got it. And it but the impact is a smidgey. However, if that tenant doesn't pay, that's bankrupting.

SPEAKER_01: 51:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 51:49

If you flip it on that, if you're a small landlord with two or three properties, all of a sudden you haven't got any rent coming in, the mortgage isn't paid for six months, all of a sudden you're like whereas you could have just paid that a little bit extra, you know, a thousand pound property, what's that?£36 that right,£36 extra a month.

SPEAKER_01: 52:06

Think of it as business insurance at the end of the day. We're running businesses, really, aren't we?

SPEAKER_03: 52:10

No, yeah, no, there, yeah, and you've then got the professionals, but also you then look at the amount of time you'll spend. And the key thing is with regards to the claim that we make, we have to make that claim prior to the tenant being 30 days in arrears. So on the 29th day of them being in arrears, I mean, and also proof that you've done all the chasing.

SPEAKER_01: 52:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 52:28

You can make that claim. And as long as you've done that before that 30th day clocks on, you then you then cover for the rent other than that first month, which is covered, which is the excess anyway. But the amount of time you'll then spend if you were doing the chasing yourself, the court applications, all these different things that you'll then try and do, all the notices you'll issue, they do that. I'm not trying to sell, I'm just these are these are facts, facts for the fact of that we've found it very good for us in the fact of that we've had those things covered for our landlords and they've been appreciated with the fact that they're very glad they had it.

SPEAKER_00: 53:01

And I have had a couple of landlords that ask if they can take it out retrospectively once they're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03: 53:06

Oh, yeah, once the tenant moves in.

SPEAKER_00: 53:08

Like what insurance company is gonna say, Oh, the tenant's already in a rear, so you have to pay out no, you know, if there's already signs that there's a problem.

SPEAKER_03: 53:16

If they're very good tenants and you've done the full check on them, then yes, there is potentially a way you can add a tenant's drawing tenancy, no problem.

SPEAKER_00: 53:22

I think it's I think from memory, the one that we work with, it either has to be taken out at the start or they have to have six months clear. A clear six month clear history before they'll I think it might have actually increased to 12 months now recently. So I think that I think these insurance companies are tightening things up as well. So I'd like to.

SPEAKER_03: 53:40

I imagine their fees are going to go up soon as well.

SPEAKER_01: 53:43

Oh yes, there's more demand, more demand. Well, it's like you can't crash a car and then get it insured, can you?

SPEAKER_00: 53:50

I'm gonna use that one when someone next asks through that. That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01: 53:54

It is though, isn't it? It really is. You know, your car is sat out there, it's lovely and everything. That's when you insure it. And then if you have a dink or an accident or something happens, that's when you use insurance. But of course, you know, you can't go and smash it up and then say, right, I just want to insure it. That's a write-off.

SPEAKER_03: 54:08

No, unfortunately, not no. And that's all our questions. A wide array of different things today, um, which I collated for us. So hopefully, we've we've answered a number of different snagging questions. I'm sure a lot of people will be um asking themselves and they've been covered. Been good to discuss them all.

SPEAKER_01: 54:25

No, it's been good, it's always a great session, and we're always learning and hearing up and pick picking up new bits and bobs as well. And I know the community because these go into the vault and things, people are watching these, and obviously, if they have any questions, they can ask us in the communities and stuff. But no, I appreciate your time as always. Really, really enjoyed it. I think a lot of those sort of frequently asked questions are good as well. You know, there's some interesting ones, Edith. The cooker one's a good one. I've certainly enjoyed it as well. And like I say, once again, thank you to Alison, thank you to Anthony for your expertise this month. Uh, and I look forward to you joining us next month as well.

SPEAKER_03: 54:58

Thank you very much. Thank you for having us. My mum taught me. Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_01: 55:01

No problem, no problem. Good to see you. I'll see you, I'll catch up with you both very, very soon.