The Property Unleashed Podcast
The Property Unleashed podcast hosted by Mark Fitzgerald is for property investors looking to build property portfolios and Businesses using different creative investing strategies as well as HMOs, Serviced Accommodation, BRRR, Flips and BTLs, We are helping others live the life they desire through Property.
The Property Unleashed Podcast
The Landlord's Guide to Selling Properties While Protecting Your Investment
Exit strategies for property investors require careful planning, especially with impending changes to tenant eviction processes and market conditions.
• Importance of buying properties that will be easily sellable in the future
• Current process for Section 21 notices when selling with vacant possession
• Challenges with tenants on benefits who won't vacate due to council housing shortages
• Court processes including accelerated possession claims and bailiff involvement
• Alternatives such as selling with tenants in situ to other investors
• Upcoming changes with the Renters Rights Bill including Section 21 abolishment
• New four-month notice periods for property sales under proposed legislation
• Six-month restrictions on re-letting properties after eviction for sale
• Importance of wills and power of attorney for protecting property assets
• Current market conditions showing strong rental demand but slower price growth
• Benefits of maintaining good tenant relationships and reasonable rent increases
• Considerations when pricing properties for sale versus achieving quick sales
For more information on navigating property exit strategies and staying ahead of legislative changes, contact HomeMaker Properties.
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So hello and welcome to today's session. I am joined by a very good friend of mine, anthony McClellan from HomeMaker Properties. Good to have you on my friend Good afternoon Fantastic, Loving the sunshine.
Speaker 2:It's always nice out there, Although us Brits we'll always know whether it's too blimmin' hot or it's too blimmin' cold. We can never be pleased there unless we're lying by a pool in the sunshine having a cold drink. But there we go that's it.
Speaker 1:That's in our nature. That's in our nature. Well, it's great to have you on, as always, mate.
Speaker 2:I know ali can't join us because it's your school holidays, so she's on mother duty, kitty care this afternoon no, but I've got some juicy stuff to get my teeth stuck into with you, some experiences I've had over the last month or so, since we uh, since we last spoke, and some stuff that's coming which is really, really important and, as is always the way with being a property owner and investor, being proactive is very, very important. Be prepared for what's coming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, it's great. It's great. So, as I say, we're going to get our sort of market update with lettings and how it's going with everything out there. So, without further ado, I'll let you take it away, my friend.
Speaker 2:Okay, so we're going to start off with something called exit strategies and, in particular, selling with vacant possessions. So what I will say to you is and I hear this an awful lot. Where you've got property investors, where they will be getting deals and opportunities. They'll be doing all that groundwork, for example, on the days of putting postcards in the paper shop down the road to say, looking to buy houses, looking to sell and not wanting to pay an estate agent fee, and all these different things. However, yes, there will be good deals that will become apparent. But, going back to the start there, there's a reason why they're selling Now may well be personal circumstances. Of course, I may not be just stereotyping that situation, but in a lot of cases, those properties may not be those golden gems that you may well be looking at. And what's important to say to you here is take a step back in any of those deals that become available, because I'm going back right to the start here. I know we're talking about exit strategies, but it's going back to the start of the property you're buying. Are you buying a saleable asset, are you buying a property that someone will want to buy, and in a lot of cases, it may well be. The figures at the start look amazing. You're getting a BMV below market value deal, wonderful About to do this and that. But are you getting a property that can be leapt? Is it going to be attractive? Is there schools? Is there high crime in that area? Is there? You know the economies of scale. Is there lots of demand? Do those stress tests and make sure that yes. At is a scare. Is there lots of demand? Do those stress tests and make sure that yes. At the front end it may look amazing, but is that place going to be the bane of your life? I see it so often. I see investors that I've bought this deal, I'm sourced a deal, they're going to do this and this and this for me. I was like, where is it? And they've said such and such. I'm like, oh right, okay, well, we'll do our best. I'm sure you'll have come across it yourself, mark, where you've heard about these deals. So that's one thing at the start. Is this sellable asset? What are the selling points?
Speaker 2:Realistically, if you came along in a certain amount of years' time and you're in a position of a potential buyer in that area, would you want to buy it? That's a really really big question to ask. So should that be? Great, you've got that, you know. Then you're then looking at the cash flow and going cash flow, the rent's achievable. Is there lots of demand in that area? So all of these different things, great, okay, we've got that property. We're then wanting to try and sell this property. So you've got a number of different avenues you can go down.
Speaker 2:So if you're wanting to sell the property with vacant possession because in some cases a buyer will say, depending upon the property, I want to do some work on it so then saying, with this in mind, can you give me vacant possession? So you've got tenants living in the property. Now if those tenants have only just moved in, there's going to be a bit of a problem with that and the fact of that. As we know, minimum terms, typically short hold tenancy agreement, is six months at the moment. That is and we'll come on to that later but at the moment six months term. So you're going to have problems with that. So it may well be whether they do an exchange, delayed completion perhaps or whether they inherit the tenants with a view of them asking them to leave after a period of time. But if they're in a periodic tenancy where they're rolling contract. They've had that first six months. It's then got into a rolling tenancy or they're coming towards the end of that.
Speaker 2:You can then give them notice to vacate the property. So typically at the moment, whilst we can something called a section 21 notice, which is a no-fault eviction, you're just saying to the tenants look, we're selling the property, here's notice to vacate the property. That's a two-month notice. Now, when you're issuing that notice, I would always recommend that you deliver it by hand to them, get them to sign to say they've received it, or you get date-stamped photos of you delivering it to the property. But in addition to that, that notice that you issue, also send it to them via email.
Speaker 2:What I'm trying to emphasize to you here is, if there's any arguments down the line you've got any and every proof that you didn't get that notice through them to say, because I know I went to court quite recently and I had a tenant say, well, I didn't receive it and you're like, okay, but the magistrate had his head screwed on and says, well, okay, that may well be that fact, but we have then written to you, since you've had a number of weeks prior to this hearing in court to resolve the issues, and you haven't. So, with that in mind, he's still found in our favor, which is a good thing. So bear that in mind. Magistrates aren't all mean grumpy what's-its that are going to bode in the favor of tenants. There was a number of different things he tried to do in that. You'll see that actually it was on our podcast quite recently very much a case of and gone. I've gone to court. It's not always a case of if you've got proof of everything you've done and done properly, you know they will be voting in your favour. Anyway, maybe he was a landlord. Well, there you go. I think he probably was. Actually he got his head screwed on on that side, which was great.
Speaker 2:So you're then trying to get them to say you give that notice to the tenants. It comes to the end of that period. You then say look, you then send an exit inspection letter, perhaps two or three weeks before, saying in line with the notice we've issued, but keeping communication with them, keeping communication, how are you getting on finding a new property? And one thing you may well do is to say to them look, officially you need to give a month's notice in line with your tenants agreement, but I'm happy for you to, you know, flexibility on that, as long as you've vacated. By the point at the end of your exit you're at your section 21,. Two months notice, that's fine, and I can give you, give me, a week's notice. That's absolutely fine, because you getting back control of that property is the key thing. Until that point, they have got the power as far as your tenants are concerned. Now, should it be? The tenants don't vacate.
Speaker 2:Now here's a situation that's occurred with two situations one property that we're currently selling at the moment and one property for another one of our landlords where we're managing their tenancy. Now what's happened is we've issued something called the section 21 notice, as I've just been referring to the no fault eviction, giving them notice that the property has been sold, sale has been agreed. With this in mind, we are now giving you two months notice to vacate the property, because you know, and I know due diligence, typically to sell a property three weeks, three months, three weeks would be great. Three months, 13 weeks, is typically how long it will take. So giving them that two months notice gives plenty of time then for them to vacate. These tenants are on in both of these properties receiving benefits. Now, both of them are families.
Speaker 2:Now what's then happened is they've said okay, we've gone to the council now to try and find further accommodation Now with coventry councils. It may be different with the different councils, but coventry council stance is okay, sit tight, we haven't got any properties for you. And we're like what do you mean? Well, they say, well, we can't vacate. They haven for you. And we're like what do you mean? Well, they say, well, we can't vacate, they haven't got any properties for us, okay, well, what do you mean? Well, we've given you a section 21. That's great.
Speaker 2:Once that section 21 expires, then you then need to apply for a possession order. It's a case of what you mean well, we're not vacating, basically. So the next stage you can then go through is something called an accelerated possession claim. So if the tenant is in no fault they've not done anything wrong, they're all happy, they're paying their rent, but they haven't got a new home they can move to, which is the same for both of these tenancies then you then have to get a possession order, so something called an accelerated possession claim, which is where everything has been done correctly, there's no breach of tenancy. It's a case of you just want possession back of your property, but the tenants won't give you it. So you write to the court the form is an N5B, as I remember and you've then got to provide proof of that the property has been rented compliantly with your safety certification. Everything has been done correctly in line.
Speaker 2:Now tell me this funny story about this quite recently, we've done well, quite recently. Now tell me this funny story about this quite recently, we've done one quite recently. Now you look up on the government website. You need to send three copies of everything. You're like I'm not quite sure why. Three copies of everything? That's what the government website said.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden I get an email through from the investor who owns the property. He says I've been sent back the pack that you sent. I said why? What's wrong with that? Everything was absolutely fine. They wanted four copies. The amount of money they've just spent sending that envelope all the way back, and time they could have just photocopied it. It would have taken them five minutes if that. But hey.
Speaker 2:So what then happens is you send that. Typically, the courts then receive that. They will then process that within. It can vary, but four to six weeks you would hope you'll receive back a possession order that will say that you now can claim back possession of property. So they can potentially then go to the council and say right, my landlord has a possession claim. He wants me out by this point. Hopefully, the council will then give a property to them or find their new property to move to.
Speaker 2:However, the next stage is they may not. The next stage is then to unfortunately have to get bailiffs. So what will then happen is you will have to pay to get bailiffs with regards to applying for that. Paying for that. Hopefully they'll still be paying rent, which means the impact on you is minimal, but it's the time and you may well lose that sale because of this. So you then get the bailiffs.
Speaker 2:Once they've got bailiffs and they've got a bailiffs order, they have to leave the property. So this is something to be aware of with regards to if you're selling a property with vacant possession. You've got tenants in there at the moment. Give them as much notice as possible. Try and do everything you possibly can do to help them to vacate when you want them to vacate. It's a difficult situation because it's an uncontrollable I'm not sure I I I assume with the fact that there's those classes, the housing crisis for people that are on benefits at the moment and people that have, in particular, got decent sized families. They haven't got properties for them to move to. So this is a conundrum.
Speaker 2:You, you will get there, but there will likely be a delay. So the process here as I've said, issue them with a section 21 when you know the sale has been agreed, which is the two months notice it gets to the end of that. They haven't then vacated. You'd issue them with it. So you then apply to the courts for an accelerated possession claim, providing all the documentation of the tenancy itself. Then, if they haven't vacated after you get the possession claim, you then have to then get bailiffs. You will then get your property back. Hopefully, if you explain to the buyers what the situation is, they will be happy enough with it or even say look, are you happy inheriting the tenants? I'm not sure. On that basis, this would particularly happen, but I'll come on to selling those tenants in in situ in a moment. But that's something that's happened. I mean, I'm not sure whether you've had something similar, mark.
Speaker 1:You've heard a similar, similar situations, different we had it here that they actually needed to be put on a street, for then the council would sort them out. And you just think how degrading is that. You know you don't want to put you. We're not here to put people, that sort of thing. It's absolutely ridiculous, but it is the. The actual council said to them if you're out on the street with your stuff, we will, we'll house you and the people that we were talking to, the tenants at the time. They were lovely people and she's like well, we're not doing that it's.
Speaker 2:It's not. You're not trying to do anything bad personally. It's just, and you know and I know, with different investors they're going through different stages and it's just typical investment market. In the fact of that you've got investors that will have bought, potentially, the 2000 boom that we had. They're now coming to retirement. They want their money to go and enjoy their retirement with their partner and their family and that is, I know I'll be honest with you as far as the estate agency side of things which we're really growing on at the moment.
Speaker 2:A lot of what we're in is selling at the moment is investment properties and typically of the more mature investor that just want their funds to. But then, on a positive of that, I mean gosh, let me achieve two or three sales yesterday. They're investment, but they're young investors that are eager to get out there. So, on a positive, yes, people are getting out the market at the moment, but there's new people that are coming in with very different expectations of what we used to have with the whole 0.5% interest rates that we used to have in the past, but it's really positive. And of the properties that are selling, there are different ranges, really positive.
Speaker 2:And of the properties that are selling. There are different ranges, but I'm finding typically I mean Masonette, a studio we sold yesterday, and then a two-bedroom house. So the smaller end investment properties are what people are buying at the moment different ones of keeping as well as ones that are looking to do them up and do flips. So the same models and strategies are still there and still happening and there's still plenty of people out there, so plenty of positives on that side of things at the moment as well I think there is.
Speaker 1:I think there's a lot. Well, there is. There's lots of great deals out there. As you say, it's just making sure that when you're doing those deals, you take these sort of things into account. There's a lot of people. They won't take it into account. Well, they won't be looking at it in that manner.
Speaker 2:Oh, golden, the gold is it the golden penny or what me and my friend syndrome.
Speaker 2:Honestly, yeah, and I've got different things we've been taught over the years. Oh, look at this deal, it's amazing and, as I said, at the front end, wow, you could have a chunk of money in your bank, but are you going to be able to sell that come the end? Now, another thing I'll come on to, as far as exit strategies as well, is protecting your personal assets and wealth and down the line. It's something we're going to have to expand upon. Another, because it's never ending all these different things to consider. But down the line, if you've got an asset, that you've got there and exit strategies, fair enough if you're just looking to sell. But if you're looking to and I'm seeing this with a lot of investors they're buying for their families and their children in the future to inherit. But what I'll say to you, I've got one investor who I'm dealing with at the moment. I'm selling two of his properties. He's just sold a significant proportion of properties, which has given him wealth, and he's still got a number of assets. But he hasn't got a will, no power of attorney, and you know the lady on the telly on ITV who's made it very public of the situation of her earning significant funds, significant assets, but they didn't have power of attorney for her and her partner and their assets have been frozen. So, all of a sudden, the wealth that they've got, the assets that they've got. So what I'll say to you is, as far as going that extra step here, make sure that if you've got assets and wealth, that you've got them covered for your children, whether it be inheritance, whether you put stuff into limited company, whether you've got stuff going into trust. But powers of attorney in particular is really and I'm sure you'll echo this is really, really important as far as exit strategies down the line are concerned. Make sure everything is protected, your wealth is protected. Should the worst thing happen to you you and your partner that your children have got things covered there, whether it be their care, their life insurance where's the life insurance going to go? All these different things to consider as far as exit strategies are concerned, down the line may well be. I'm going to keep him forever, never gonna sell, I'm gonna rent them out forever and I'm brilliant, okay. Well, how about when your inherit them? How is that going to be? So different thing to consider about that?
Speaker 2:Next thing I'm going to come on to is the other avenue of selling with tenants in situ. Now I know in the olden days you'd say, oh, no, vacant possession, oh, I'm going to have to worry about your squatters getting in there, or the insurance and the council tax. No, it's a case of yes. I will say to you now there may not be quite as big a marketplace selling to investors that want to buy with tenants in situ. However, if you've been doing things such as increasing the rent year on year, whether that be a section 13 or a renewal, your safety certification's up to date. I mean, I've sold a property quite recently which was a HMO, which is a four bedroom HMO. It was sold at a decent price but there was the potential to put ensuite bathrooms in there. There was the potential to make a fifth bedroom. There was avenues of, you know, growing that property itself and improving it and enhancing it, and the landlord was more than happy buying it with tenants in situ because he could then put his plans together over the coming period, even do work whilst they're there and appease them accordingly.
Speaker 2:But selling with tenants in situ is important. But what I will say to you is make sure all your safety certification, as I said, is correct. That initially, when you did the property tenancy, the credit checks, the right to rent checks were done at the start. But you've got proof of all of this stuff. Everything is there. I'd always recommend electronic signatures for that be signable DocuSign, the audit trails, everything that you do. And if you've got everything in order, your rents are up to market rents of what they should be.
Speaker 2:Why wouldn't someone want to buy it with tenants in situ? And one avenue you may well consider with selling a property, an investment property, although going back on what I've just said, then, about giving them notice to vacate, if they're not on benefits, then that may well be quite easy if they're employed and no worries. But give the people that are looking to buy the place look, this is what I'm achieving. If you're looking to rent the property out, once you purchase the property you place, look, this is what I'm achieving. If you're looking to rent the property out, once you purchase the property, you could inherit these tenants this is what they're paying rent and give them the option. So if they're in a periodic tenancy at the time, give them the option of inheriting the current tenants or I can give it vacant possession.
Speaker 1:Either or Money from day one, isn't it Money from day one? And I'm with you on that one? I'm seeing more and more people that as long as everything checks out, they're quite happy. A guy I know actually he bought a property, he's got full intention, he wants to really refurb it out and everything. But he said I'm just going to park it for the minute because it's cash flowing, he says, and I can focus and concentrate on the other things I'm doing.
Speaker 2:I've got off-market deals at the moment which are premium properties. They're premium prices but they're getting good returns. But the investor's like, well, why do I need to go bmv or so I'm making good money? Look, if someone comes along and I'm not paying an estate agency fee which is my off-market sourcing that I do fine, go for it. That's the price I want, but in the meantime it's making me good money. Don't need to, but there's plenty of opportunities out there at the moment. But I think, as we've just covered, they're going back to making sure that you've done all the proofs, but getting a second or a third set of eyes on a deal really, really important, because you know and I know we get those lenses on there oh, look at the deal. I worked so hard and especially new investors that are just starting out. They've got that first deal and it's amazing. I don't want to miss out. There's other deals out there. It's like when you're I think you're okay this when you're buying your first house and you get set on this first amazing property that you see that you're going to go and move to and live in, and it falls through and know, but the next one that comes along is even better, and we know that me and my wife allison, we did exactly. That was exactly that. We found a lovely house in kennel earth lovely but then didn't find. I saw another one came. My brother found it in fact comes along. Oh, this is even better. And then we ended up getting that one. So, yes, that's the marketplace at the moment and I think a good few lessons to be learned from that one. Very good, so moving on.
Speaker 2:Now then, the final point of something that's coming up now and the brenta's rights bill. Gosh, all we're hearing about at the moment. It's been going on for so long. When will it? I know we've been having chats about this. Is it going to happen next month, october, or even June next year? Who knows? It's with the government at the moment and it's going through the steady stages, but there has been different changes that are going on. However, there are now different things to consider.
Speaker 2:As far as if you're wanting to get back possession of your property, to sell it, there's a new thing that's happening now, well publicized, is Section 21,. The no false eviction is being removed. That is happening. When that will happen, when that will come into effect, we will have to see. But whilst you can do it, make use of it if you need to. What will be happening is they're removing that, but they're then adding additional terms to the Section 8 notice which was previously used when a tenant was in breach of their tenancy terms and conditions, whether they were in arrears or they were antisocial behaviour or they were doing something wrong in breach of their tenancy agreement. However, they're going to be adding terms now to the Section 8 notice which will allow people for example, if you're selling your home, sale of a dwelling house, so the landlord wishes to sell their property, they can give that notice, no problems at all. Now the landlord wishes to sell the property.
Speaker 2:If you've just moved tenants into the property, you can't obviously issue them notice straight away. It cannot be issued for the first 12 months of a new tenancy. Okay, so you've just moved tenants in, you need to all of a sudden say you can't tell them? You need to, admittedly, if you come to an agreement between them, but their rights are, they can live there for 12 months. In addition to that, the notice that previously we were saying about the section 21 was two months, the new notice period if you're wanting to sell your property, giving notice to your tenants is four months. Now, it may well be they will say that we want four months notice, we want four months to try and find a new property. They may well come back to you and say, right, okay, I'm giving you X amount of notice, less notice, but you are legally obliged to give four months notice to the tenants.
Speaker 2:Now, another rule that's been introduced here as well is that once possession has been sought under this particular ground, which is 1A, sale of a dwelling house the landlord cannot. So let's say, for example, he gives them four months notice, they move out. He cannot rent that property again for a further six months. Because your intention was and the reason why you've issued this notice is because you're selling the property. So then what you've then got to make sure is that you're able to prove that you've then been trying to sell the property at the market rate, to sell that property in line with what you've said that your tenants you're going to be doing, because otherwise yeah, it's a case of otherwise you've told them you're doing something, but all of a sudden you're not going to do that.
Speaker 2:Now, the challenges that this is going to throw up is the fact of that? Okay. Let's go through a case of this right. Tenants have been in the property over a year. You give them four months notice. They vacate the property. You then agree a sale on the property itself. Sale falls through. You can't rent it again Because of the timescales of all these things that are now being introduced. You can't rent it again. Fantastic, how are you doing, ron? You okay there, I'm able to see everybody now, is that right?
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, you're all good I think Ron's got a quick question actually.
Speaker 2:Go on then, Ron.
Speaker 3:Go for it, or a point? Yeah, I think I've forgotten what it was. It was just in relation to what you were saying. If you were going to rent it and the sale fell through, that you then can't sorry. If you were going to sell it and the sale fell through, that you couldn't then sell it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, you couldn't. Then sell it. Yeah, no, no, you can. Obviously, no, selling it is fine. It's a case of renting the property out. So let's say, for example, you've going through the process, you've given the note to somebody else, yes, so basically you just then go try and find somebody else to buy the property for you. So the issue there is the fact of that. It's not a flexibility of strategies, backers and forwards, frustrating in the fact of you think to yourself well, okay, well, okay, I've had a bit of a problem. It's a good time of year to rent it. I'll just rent it instead and I'll see if I can sell it, maybe next year.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, if you've issued this notice, you can't just flip back between that. It's a six month period, so it's not killer. It used to be 12 months, but that got amended quite recently in House of Commons, house of Lords, so that's a good thing. That's boded in the favour of investors, but it's still yeah, if your tenants aren't in breach. What they're trying to do is give them the power to stay there as long as they want to. I mean, I think back a number of years ago, they were all about giving tenants five-year tenancies, and I think it's gone from one extreme to another and I think it's it's crazy.
Speaker 1:But um, there we go just just a quick one on that. So I've got a property, I've got a tenant in there. It's been over 12 months and I'm thinking to myself I want to do the property up, maybe I might sell it. I don't know, is it? It's only three months notice anyway, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yes, but it's a case of there's different avenues around you can go down and different reasons why, and it's then a case if you're then trying to make sure those tenants are going to vacate and the different digging and avenues you're going to go down. It's yes, honestly, there's complicated factors backwards and forwards of ways in which you can get back possession of your property and, yes, it's just making sure you're fully aware of all the different options that you've got yeah, yeah, yeah so, but that would be one of the avenues.
Speaker 1:If you were worried that it might fall through and you couldn't rent it for six months, you'd just give them normal notice, wouldn't you?
Speaker 2:yes, yes, if they're in the periodic tenancy period, obviously, the fact of the new tenancies now are going to be all periodic by the look of it again, is it going to be confirmed? Are we going to get this in writing? It's all quiet over there, um, so we shall see what's going to come through, whether it lands sooner or later, whether they're going to do drip feeding like they did, for example, when they introduced the new electric certification laws. It was a case of the current tendencies and new tendencies and different legislation have introduced over the years with different types of tendency. But I believe certain aspects may will be introduced very quickly, like the section 21 removal. Other stuff down the line we shall have to see it's.
Speaker 1:It's a lot. I think it's a lot of nonsense it's my professional opinion yeah, I think a lot of it is is quite petty, I think, and I don't think all of it helps tenants that much the government are trying to get brownie points.
Speaker 2:Potentially that could be a way it could be seen, because you know the the a lot of the people in the country are renting, a lot of people, a very large proportion of people renting in the country and they're trying to get on the side of. We want to give you more powers but the frustrating thing is, you know, 90 of tenants are happy, they're looked. You know the landlords do things by the book and, frustratingly, as different legislations have been introduced in the past remember the old sale and rent backs people used to be able to do Unfortunately, people that were breaching it, which was a minority, have penalized the majority. Now I will say to you now that I think it's great that they're introducing a different legislation that make properties safer for tenants. Their safety and security is paramount for me. As a latin agency, I've got hundreds of tenancies. I want them to love the homes that they're living in. They're safe, they're happy and the properties themselves. You know I love a safe homes for them and compliant.
Speaker 2:However, different stuff that's being introduced, it complicates matters and I'm sure a lot of tenants won't know. I mean, there's the new legislation of rent increases and there may well be if you need to go to tribunal. Yeah, there's a whole array of different things, lots of ifs, buts and maybes, but we shall see what comes out down the line. But this is definitely something to be considering of, and what I'll say to you is, as far as the renter's rights bill coming, do everything and anything you can do now. Be proactive, get your rent up, do your renewals, make sure everything is as up to you as possibly as it can be, and make sure you're fully covered when new legislation comes in.
Speaker 1:No, that's great advice, and it is. It's about being, in this day and age, the property professional and understanding that. You know we've got to systemizeize things but you've got to make sure that things are in place and it's it's the same with anything else. If, like you say, you've got periodic tenancies and everything, get them locked in. If you can get them locked in, you've got good tenants. It gives everybody that peace of mind absolutely and not just for you.
Speaker 2:Obviously for landlords they like to have the tenancies on fixed terms because you know that they can pretty much guarantee of what's going to be coming in each and every month. But tenants like that security as well. Sometimes it's well, we want the rolling contracts, well, fine, okay Doesn't mean you can't have a rent increase. Section 13 means you can increase that rent as of the notice period that's being given. Renewals mean the rent is going up, but you're fixing that rent. Either way, you can get those rents up. Whether it be a tenant doesn't want to commit to a new period at the new rent, then so be it. But you can get those rents up and that's what's really important.
Speaker 2:And people say oh, you know increasing your rents, you know I have a really good tenant. So I say, well, when you're trying to get possession back of your property, if all of a sudden they've been paying 800, but the market rent is 1,000, they're not going to find properties that are going to meet their budget all of a sudden it's almost a reality check. So it seems I'm not sure the people would see it quite this way, but you're doing them a favour. The fact of the reality check of what the actual market rent is, and you're also doing yourself a favour in the fact that when they're trying to find property in the future, that they're budgeting for the right amount of rent they're paying at the moment, as well as where they're moving to, exactly exactly, and it's just good practice.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, like you say, it moves with the cost of living and if you leave yourself behind and you leave yourself open, the other thing is as well is, I believe you know, with the Rentter's right bill and everything that's coming in, having market rents that are respected and everything you know. I mean we do pretty much market rents. I'm a little bit more expensive, but not massively, only like a 10 or 15 quid, and some of the tenants I've had actually say I don't mind paying that a little bit more because I know I get a better service with you than the normal service or I get a better class of people that we're living with and stuff, particularly with the HMOs. But I was quite nervous about doing that and that was really when the utilities went through the roof.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, Crikey all of a sudden.
Speaker 1:Now I was one of the most expensive, but we had to be because of my business model. But we also then went above and beyond offering a service. We've got a voucher service and everything. So people get discounts on local shops and things in our area as well by being a good tenant. So we have like a reward scheme and things added value.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think that is if you're going to put stuff up, what can you add to it as well to help people? But so I get that some, some landlords or some even investors they go for you know they try and break through the ceiling of all the rents and things and I get that. That could actually now, with the way things are going, come back and bite you. But if you do good, affordable living, I still think that the government, the way that they're changing things and having those rolling contracts I think that hinders. More of my tenants have said I'm not happy about that. I'd rather be locked into six months or 12 months. I know what I'm doing and I've said well, obviously there's different ways that you can end the tenancies and things as it is, but they're like no, I'm quite happy. That's what I know and that's what I like. You know, people don't always like to change themselves, do they?
Speaker 2:No, wow, no one likes change, do they Well?
Speaker 1:you do if it's for the better. I just don't know if this is always for the better.
Speaker 2:I've got tenants that have lived in properties that we've been managing for 14. I've had one guy who lives in an HMO room in Elston in Coventry. I think it's 14 years. We took the property on and he was living there and he's still living there. Big, ginormous front reception room which had been turned into a nice room. It's not even a long suite, it's literally a double room and a house share. But lovely guy, rent paid on time every month. But that's what he likes and he's used to.
Speaker 2:But what I'll say is and another thing to emphasize with regards to rent and I get this sometimes with landlords, the tone of this, in fact I'm not sure they've told this story before already but going for the highest rent you can get will cost you more money in the short term in the fact that you'll have an empty property for longer. Likely. Fair enough, you know, try the marketplace. Maybe if you've got HMO, maybe try one of the rooms at the higher rate and release the other ones steadily and see what the reaction is to those prices. But it can be if you dig your heels and keep them on the market for the higher price too long, you're going to have a void property which costs you more than achieving the higher rent. And I know there was this story of the landlord that came to us with a property not in the most high profile of areas as a HMO, spent a fortune doing it up and probably overspent. But they didn't live in Coventry and they bought in an area which I was like it's all right, maybe it wouldn't have been a hotspot area for HMOs, but okay, we'll see what we can do. And they said, well, we're trying to get such and such a rent. And I says how are we going to get that? There's not the demand there. Economy's at scale. I says we'll try it at these prices. And it was let within two weeks at the right price. And that's what's really important makes it and this is where the whole stress test so that you go back on it again what's realistically going to be achievable with the rents in this particular property and rents.
Speaker 2:Hmos tend to be close to the city centre amenities and you're more demand in certain areas where you've got different markets with students, professionals. If you've got all different types of marketplace that can be left to, there's more demand, you'll get the higher rents, premium rents. Typically they won't have vehicles so they can walk to where they need to get to. There's bus transport, there's train transport close by, there's supermarket, there's pharmacies all these different things you're going to want in your doorstep. You put one out in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, different, different things to consider. But no, the marketplace rents wise.
Speaker 2:Over the last few years since covid has gone crazy. It's still. Rents are high and they've ever been. Voids are low and they've ever been. As this is a letting agency, it's wonderful for landlords at the moment, but the rate at which they're increasing is definitely slowed down in comparison to what it was, because, yeah, I probably said two years ago it was going through the roof, but now it's still going up at a good rate.
Speaker 2:So, typically for you know, a double room and ensuite room each and every year you know you said about the 15, 20, 25 pound. Putting that on extra every month, that's 300 pound a month for 300 pound a year, say for a per room. Times that by five, that's 1500 pound a year. Actually, it gets him. She's great. As far as rents, then, for full properties, depending upon what rent you're initially achieving. But if you're, I don't know, £1,000, £900, you're doing £50, £75 a month on top of that. Typically it may well be the landlord says try and see if you can get X. See what the tenant says that'll be happy with Y, so happy with Y. So you try 75 and then I'll be happy with 50. But it's within reason, because voids cost more than achieving optimum rent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally agree with that. I mean you just got to look at the figures overall over 12 months. If you look at a property, predominantly minor HMOs and rather than even putting a rent, I mean I've got a couple of people that have been in there over five years now in certain properties and we put up marginal, but actually everybody else pays more than they do, and I've just said why. Because at the moment they've never given me any grief. They put the beams down, they make sure it's tidy and they're actually you know. So I reward people for that and if they want to stay there for life, they can do, because it's a void.
Speaker 2:And then also making sure that you highlight to them look and look, I'm looking after them, but I was making sure that they're aware of what you're doing for them as well, making sure the fact of look, this is what rents are being achieved by nearby to you. But I want to look after you and they'll appreciate that. The little things that can go the extra mile, because keeping your tenants and making them as sticky as possible, almost, and the fact of keeping them wanting to stay glued to your properties and stay in your properties, and even if they wanted to move to another one of yours because they're happy with you, the way you're treating them and looking after them goes an awfully long way. The extra little things that you're saying, the added value about the vouchers and stuff, those little things go an extra mile and it doesn't cost you anything in some cases and in a case of minimal amount of time, but going that extra mile makes an awful lot of difference. And recommendations, then, to friends yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you're finding the market's okay, then still booming, yes?
Speaker 2:sales-wise things have really, really picked up as far as investment properties, which has been fantastic as far as our growing in that area. And you know, prices-wise, one thing I will say I know that we've had, and this is a lesson I think everyone will echo when you're trying to sell a property, it's only worth what someone will pay for it. That's what's really important. And I gave the example. There was two properties very, very similar on the outskirts of Coventry, one of which I remember me and my wife Alison bought. We spent, I bought the property and renovated it and then we then got remortgaged after six, seven months and we got it valued at a certain price. We then got to three or four years down the line.
Speaker 2:We then moved over to Kenilworth and the price increase. We were saying three or four percent a year, a pessimistic view of the valuation increase, and we said we wanted to sell it for that price. We sold it for what it got valued at when we got it remortgaged. That was the price. Then we've then got another landlord who's selling his property very similar value, very similar profile. Now it's good for Coventry and he was going through probate because he inherited it off his mum. And what's then happened is he was pondering over what he did at the time and he says no, we'll go through renting the property for a couple of years and then we'll maybe review it in a few years time. So three years ago ago it got valued at a certain price, going through probate. So officially, no case of oh, it's going to be priced at this much or this much. It was done through. So this is official. You know, valuation of what real, true value of what it was.
Speaker 2:Again, I then said to him I says based on three or four percent it's gone up by x amount of money. He's just sold it for what it got valued at three years ago. Now I'm not saying you know, Anthony, you should have pushed for hire. I said, well, I would have, could have, should have pushed for hire, but in the end it wasn't my decision, what was going to be made on that one? As far as the sale for me and Alison, we were motivated to get to Kenilworth and we wanted to achieve a sale, to achieve where we wanted to move to. I could dig my heels and try and get a little bit more, but the fact is he's selling to the tenants that are living in the property oh, that's nice, there's no void he's got.
Speaker 2:And you then think, okay, well, there's a couple of grand for this, a couple of grand for that bit's there because it's tenants that we're managing the tenancy. I've also given him a reduced fee for the fact of that. It's being sold to the current tenants. We haven't had to do the whole estate agency process. So this is different things. So if you've got tenants that you've got in your property with your agent, there's the positives there. You've got rental completion, you've got no worries about getting voids as far as insurance is concerned and council tax and the utility standing charges, all these different positives. So yeah, there's a positive there. It may well be, if you're, I don't know, different investors I speak to and my dad's considering, you know, at retirement age now he's considering maybe selling some of his properties and then he'll go to some of his tenants and they will say are you interested in buying the property and then giving them a slightly preferential rate, give them a true value and then they will be.
Speaker 1:But if it works for all parties, then why not? Yeah, and I think there can be a stigma about greed a lot of people can come across because they just want as much money as humanly possible and things. But I I do think it's about like you say, it's getting that deal right. It's got to be a win-win for everybody, otherwise you're not going to be able to sell it. And you see so many I mean you'll see, you'll see it, you'll know about it, I see it, ronald will see it and everything. There's so many properties out there that you look at and you just think they're never going to get that.
Speaker 1:For that, and I mean the last property that I sold, we actually put it on the market for 25 grand less than the market value. We sold it for £27,000 more than market value. It's always like the auctions, isn't it? Dangle the carrot at the lower price and then do? I just said to the agent, I said block. I'm blocking out saturday and sunday open days. I'll be there, you don't have to come. I'll saw it, because I wanted to meet the people that were bidding and the guy. Actually there was one guy that bidded more than the one that bought it, but I didn't think he'd go through with it. It's just something about him that just didn't, didn't, didn't, didn't. But the guy that actually bought it was the first time buyer with his missus. They fell in love. They were looking at where they could put the tv.
Speaker 1:They were doing all of this. I was chatting to them, I got to know them and I thought you know what? I'd rather sell it to these guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's what it's about there's another thing, with the estate agency side of things as well, which we do find, and it's happened on a number of occasions recently where people have come to us and said we're really, really interested in buying the property. Anthony, I'm going to bid this much and they send me an email saying I want to bid x. I'm like brilliant, okay, can you provide me proof of address, proof of id, proof of funds and proof that you're able to get lending? It's all gone quiet, it's all on a good. So you go and buy a million pound, I'm gonna buy it for a million. Brilliant, now, prove that you can buy it.
Speaker 2:So, yes, and the different avenues, but obviously doing that 40 proofing the money laundering checks that have to be done and this is where, when you're doing your, in particular, if you're trying to sell a property yourself is making sure you're spending your time wisely in the fact of proof, those people that you're doing the viewings with. Are you in a position at the moment where you've got an agreement in principle? Yes, I have. And as far as proof of funds, where are those funds coming from? That'd be banker, mum and dad, or whether it's a case of they've got savings or inheritance or they've got money in the bank they've saved.
Speaker 2:Whatever it may well be, and if I need to get those points, have you got those available very quickly? Should it be, you want to put a bid forward? Yes, do those things. Admittedly, it's a soft check. You're not asking them to send you it, but if there's a lot of interest, it may well be. You may well actually want people to say to you if you want to get ahead of the game, can you provide these proofs before you visit in the property? So it would be a good thing to do.
Speaker 1:No, that's brilliant. That's brilliant and great insights today, as always, my friend, absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2:Anthony and, like I say, I enjoyed to hear about your fun and fare when you're back from your holiday. So have a good one, my friend, and I'll see you again soon, thanks so much cheers guys.