The Property Unleashed Podcast
The Property Unleashed podcast hosted by Mark Fitzgerald is for property investors looking to build property portfolios and Businesses using different creative investing strategies as well as HMOs, Serviced Accommodation, BRRR, Flips and BTLs, We are helping others live the life they desire through Property.
The Property Unleashed Podcast
Beyond the Day Job, Creating Financial Freedom Through Property With David Denton
The path to property success isn't always a straight line. For Dave Denton, it's been a journey of persistent growth while balancing a full-time career in the construction industry. In this compelling conversation with host Mark Fitzgerald, Dave reveals how he built a diverse property portfolio starting with just £28,000 in 1999.
Dave's story stands out because he achieved what many aspiring investors dream of—creating substantial wealth through property while maintaining his day job. From his first purchase (a repossessed property with no kitchen) to his recent pivot into service accommodation, Dave shares the realistic challenges and triumphs along the way. What's particularly fascinating is how he unknowingly used advanced strategies like exchange with delayed completion on his very first deal, securing what amounted to a 120% mortgage in ways that wouldn't be possible in today's lending environment.
The conversation takes an insightful turn when Dave discusses his mindset evolution. Initially viewing property merely as a retirement strategy, he faced a crisis when interest rate hikes meant his properties cost more in mortgage payments than they generated in rent. Rather than giving up, Dave sought education and discovered the property networking community, transforming his approach from passive investing to active business building. This pivot has allowed him to weather recent challenges, including unexpected renovations that ultimately increased one property's rental income from £670 to £950 monthly.
What makes this episode particularly valuable is Dave's candid discussion of both successes and setbacks. From dealing with credit card debt from refurbishments to waiting a full year to complete a purchase during COVID restrictions, listeners gain practical insights into the real-world obstacles investors face. Yet the rewards are equally evident—that first £28,000 property is now worth approximately £165,000 and has funded additional properties, cars, and even a caravan.
Whether you're balancing property investing with a full-time career or looking to make your first purchase, Dave's experiences offer invaluable guidance on persistence, education, and adaptability. Subscribe to the Property Unleashed podcast for more stories that demonstrate the life-changing potential of strategic property invest
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Hello and welcome to the Property Unleashed podcast with me your host, mark Fitzgerald, and today I'm joined by a special guest. I have Dave Denton joining me here today and I'm really looking forward to having a good conversation with him. You're going to love this episode. Good to have you on, dave. How are you today?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm good. Thank you, mark. Yourself I'm very well, very well. All the better for seeing you, my friend, all the better for seeing you. So I'm really happy and privileged today to have Dave joining me, because Dave's been investing now quite a long time. Dave's been investing now quite a long time. He's done quite a mixture of deals as well, and he's done it all while still in a full time job and trying to educate himself and move himself forward. So I'm sure today is going to be a great conversation that you're all going to get a lot from. It's also great to have Dave on with all of his experience and everything and, of course, to have him as a member of the community as well. You'll have seen his posts in there, which is always great, and, as I say, he's a really, really strong force to have in the property world and he's got a wealth of knowledge. So, realistically, dave, for the people that don't know much about you, tell us a bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:So by trade, I'm a joiner. So literally from the day I left school, I think three days after leaving school I'm a joiner, literally from the day I left school, I think. Three days after leaving school I started my apprenticeship Three years working for in fact it might have even been four years working for a small joiner's shop where we made our own doors, windows, whatever basically came through and then we went out to the sites to fit them. After that I then moved on to to housing, so it was mass house building, um. So that was for mcalpine homes, where I was a site joiner there for a couple of years before going into site management for ben bailey homes, where I was an assistant for five years. And then after that, in fact whilst I was at Ben Bailey Homes, was when I bought my first property, and the main motivation for buying that was at that time house prices were going up massively. You know, whatever the house was listed at, you had to bid above because you could not buy anything at below asking price at that particular time. That was 1999. So, yeah, the reason for purchase was fear that I may never own a house if I didn't buy. Now. Um, and I've no idea at the time, I've done what would be classed as an advanced strategy at that time. So I actually did um exchange with delayed completion, and I've been. Even up until about a couple of years ago I didn't really know that that was a thing and that I'd actually done that.
Speaker 2:Um, so what happened? It was the time when Northern Rock were quite happy to throw money at everybody, so I purchased the property with a 5% deposit. I then got a credit card and a personal loan at the same rate as the mortgage, so effectively, I had 120% mortgage when I bought the property. Woo, so A deal then, yeah, and again, it's a deal I could never repeat, because the banks wouldn't let you do it anymore.
Speaker 2:Um, I bought a residential property with no kitchen. There was no, there were just wires hanging out of the wall, um and what and what, and it had been repossessed. So, and what the bank let me do? I paid the deposit and they gave me six weeks to get a kitchen fitted and get the electrics tested before they would release all the money. Um, uh, so, yeah, so that's the kind of deal that just you can't do anymore. And and at that time, what was I about? 21, 22, something like that um still living at home with my parents, and you know it was quite comfortable there, getting me washing done and having all my meals made for me, so I never actually moved into my first house, I just put it.
Speaker 1:Just looking at that first. I just want to touch on that first deal, because that's not an easy deal, is it?
Speaker 2:No, that's a project that is for your, for your first deal yeah, it was just a whim, it was just like, yeah, I've got to buy something. I need to buy something now before the houses get too expensive. Yeah, um, they were literally going up tens of thousands of pounds a month. Um, you know, at that particular time when I was working at ben bailey's, we were building three bedroom properties in barnsley for about 80 000 pound, detached with a garage. Um, and in the year I was there, by the end of the site the same house type was selling for 110 000 pound wow, wow, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:It was a crazy time. I remember it as well because I was in bath at the time, uh, looking to try and buy a house and like the same. It was just going up and up and up and down. There it was. You know, we were talking about a hundred thousand, couple of hundred thousand for a first time buyer, um, so yeah, crazy, crazy time so, yeah, so that that first property I bought that for £28,000.
Speaker 2:Wow, most of the work I did myself on that, with quite a bit of help from my dad. So we probably spent about a year renovating it and, again, at that time you didn't have to worry about council tax on empty properties because they didn't charge you. So I got it done within about a year with help from my dad and I think when it was complete it was valued at about 40 000 pound nice, and I thought about buying another one up the street, but the ones that needed doing up had gone up to £40,000 and I thought, oh, they're too expensive now to buy another one. So, yeah, the next house that I bought was the house that I moved in with my wife to. So then I left investing for a few years because I wasn't aware of anybody doing training or anything. So, you know, I've just muddled my way through on my own for quite a few years, you know, not having anybody really to help me here. The advice I've been getting from, you know, estate agents and solicitors, not really people that's been investing yeah, um, so I think. I think the next property I bought then after that would have been 2011.
Speaker 2:Um, and again I was lucky when I got that things had changed a little bit. Uh, again it was a repossession, but this time I came across the problem of and I which I wasn't wasn't expecting was once I put the offer in. I then noticed the advert going, the paper saying exactly how much I'd offered and giving other people 28 days to make an offer, and so I'm like I was like what? They can't do that, but of course they still do. Yeah, so that that was a nerve-wracking time because I was going through all the legals, I was spending money knowing full well that somebody else knew exactly what I'd offered and that they couldn't. They could come in and take it from me at a moment's notice. And again, I was lucky as well with that one, in that I knew there was a possibility of redundancy, but I'd started the mortgage process just before that and obviously told a little white lie that you know. I wasn't aware of any redundancies because I had not been given my notice at that particular time and I think probably about a month after completion, I did get made redundant.
Speaker 2:So I then went self-employed Nice. So self-employed for five years working as a general builder, joiner, and a couple of years later I then bought the third property, which I certainly didn't get a bargain in the price that I paid for it, but because of its location it was worth more to myself, which I certainly think I didn't get a bargain in the price that I paid for it, but because of its location it was worth more to myself than it was to anybody else Little back-to-back two-bedroom property with a huge garden in relation to the property. So I've then separated some of the garden because it's literally next to where I live and I'll use the garden garden for me. A lot of the garden I use for myself, and I've also got space to start my caravan and park my van on on some of the land that came with the property, um, so I possibly paid a little bit over the odds for it, but I've had a huge amount of benefit from it as well. So one of the jobs that I do need to do at some point is, uh, title split that property. But again, there is a possibility, a future date, that there is room to build another house literally on the side of it, wow, nice. So so that might be that that might be a future, a future plan on that one.
Speaker 2:And then along came 2008, um, but no, no, sorry, 2020. I bought the house next door, which was an off-market deal, um, because, and the lady next door died, so I bought. I bought that from the family, but unfortunately I just put the offer in, I'm going through the mortgage and then everything stopped, oh yeah, because of covid. So that from putting the offer into buying that house took a year because and I think that's where had I been part of, say, one of the, had I had mentorship or something like that at that time, I would have been able to secure that property, possibly on a lease option or an EDC.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just I just didn't know those things were available or doable. So, yeah, I had a year where the vendor was getting anxious because nothing was happening. They got an empty property. I had a tenant already lined up, but I just couldn't move forward. Frustrating, frustrating, yeah. But yeah, hindsight I know I could have done an EDC on that property now and I could have been in that property renovating it 10 months before I got into it yeah so it's just so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, regret, I just wish I knew what I know now on that one well, it's one of those.
Speaker 1:It's one of those things at the end of the day, because I mean, first of all, you've taken action anyway. You've got out there, you've started to build your portfolio and things. So you know, you don't know everything, but you're still getting out there and you know the bits that you do know you're acting upon, which is always commendable, because a lot of people, even when they know everything, don't even go out there and do anything. So it's great to see that. The other thing is, it does go to show that by getting that bit of knowledge, by just learning about those sort of creative strategies, that it gives you more of a toolkit when you're looking and negotiating on property deals as well, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah. So I know I could have done that better and I think one of the big mistakes I've made as well, because originally my strategy was really only to have property as a way of retiring, because pensions are not what they used to be. I wasn't really treating it as a business. It was more of just something to build for the future. And then along came the hiking interest rates, which would have been what 2002, 2003, something like that.
Speaker 2:And then at that point I ended up where I've got properties that were costing me more in interest than what I was bringing in in rent. Um, so I then started to get to the point of I was seriously thinking of getting rid of all the property, selling up um, because it was starting to cause me some stress. And I don't know quite exactly how things happened, but, um, and it was another trainer. I kept seeing his advert popping up on facebook. I thought maybe I should hold on to him, and I think it's that usual thing of seven touch points. So other, before you do anything, I thought, and, and this guy who it was with he did um a five day, one hour free training course. I thought, yeah, all right, I'll do that an hour a day for a week. And from doing that I found, oh, I saved some money on my insurance by lumping all my policies into one. So I thought, well, okay, what he's charging for his mentorship? I've already over five years I've saved that on the insurance. So I thought I'll do it, and I think that was the start then of where I decided to get educated. So I did his mentorship, got to the end of that and I thought I don't want to sign up to his mastermind. I want obviously then finding out that there's other companies out there that are doing training, and that's I thought I want to find out what other people are doing before I sign up, to sign up to what he's doing. So at that point I found progressive and uh, and then I started attending pin meetings because, again in in the sort of networking community I kept hearing about people going to pin meetings. I'm like what on earth, what on earth is a pin meeting? Yeah, I had absolutely no clue. So back back what 2000? Yeah, 2023, I had no clue that, um, networking events for property even existed, wow. So then I started going to the Leeds PIM meeting and, you know, started to build a community and obviously that's how I've come across yourself through getting involved with PIM. So then it's, yeah, been quite a big mindset change there.
Speaker 2:And then this last year I possibly had again another stressful year with a change of unexpected events, but where I think a lot of people would have probably given up. So, yeah, last year I bought. I bought a property just to buy as an only little buy, rent, buy, refurbish, refinance, and then one of the tenants that I thought I got as a live tenant inherited some money so they moved out. So I had that property to renovate, which cost me a few pounds. But the plus side is I've lifted the rent on that from around about £670 a month to it's now 950 pound a month.
Speaker 2:So even though it came at the wrong time, it's still long term. It's benefited me. And as soon as I've finished that renovation another tenant moved out, so straight from that to the next one. So but now again that that has benefited me because now I've done a higher standard refurb than what orders are by to let and that's now been an essay for the last six weeks and I've had a reasonable amount of bookings for it being a new property on the market, lovely property that which, um, I've seen the pictures and everything off in a nice location as well, very, very nice location.
Speaker 1:So I mean for a service accommodation, it should do very, very well. But it also goes to show as well that you've had to buy, to let, which predominantly was the safe bet. But with interest rates and the way things have gone, you know the markets change. But I always like to see people and obviously monitoring it and looking at it myself as well.
Speaker 2:It's sometimes we have to change with the times, don't we? And try new things. Yeah, yeah, and it had been at the back of my mind since doing the first training that I would maybe change that property to SA, but I didn't want, you know, tenants paying the money every month. I didn't want to be evicting a tenant just to change it. Yeah, I didn't feel right about doing that, but I said as soon as that tenant left it was like, okay, somehow I need to find the money and get this, this done and get it out there.
Speaker 2:Um, so, yeah, that that's up and running. And you know, work wise, I've just had a big change in the in me working that I've now started working for a new company, um, just been with them a week and three days now, um, but already I feel a lot more in flow with what I'm doing because that, the work that they do and the kind of people they've got working for them, um, it will. I can use that possibly to serve other investors, because we do have access to a lot of trades and labor, um, so, yeah, so that that's also a new chapter oh, that's great.
Speaker 1:That's great. So have you ever had like, did you set out, did you set your goals out, saying I want x amount of properties, or was it just like I need to buy a house? So you initially check that one off and then it's just sort of grand opportunities as you've been going along and just thought I'll tell you what I'm going to buy, that yeah, I think that that's.
Speaker 2:That's been pretty much what it was.
Speaker 2:You know, I built up a little bit of money from the rent and you know, I've been basically putting some of the profit from the rent into ISAs and then, once it got to a reasonable enough pot for a deposit, it was like, right, okay, I can go buy another one. You know nothing, no major sort of plan, it was just I just saw, you know, that property was better than what stock market returns were doing at that particular time. You know, and I quite like doing the renovations, so it's nice to have a bit of a project. So, yeah, because you've got both elements, you've got both the growth and the income from them. So yeah, we're never, never, never a major plan, although, as I say, over the last couple of years, you know, I have, I am sort of I have started to change that and now, ultimately, over the next few years, I want to develop my property business sufficiently so that I can start moving away from work and not be working 12 hours a day, and I want to get away from that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, get that time freedom going and everything. I think that's a massive thing, isn't it? That's a massive thing. And, of course, you know now you've got the information, you know how you want to set things up. You're testing things as well with your service, accommodations and things. It's great, but I mean looking back through, obviously, your learnings and your experiences and everything you know. Have you, have you got a sort of a you've touched on some of your challenges and things that you've had already but a sort of a challenging situation that you had within property and what you did to resolve it or how you managed to resolve it?
Speaker 2:I think I mean this year, finance has definitely been one of my biggest, has been the biggest challenge that I've had this year, in that I've been doing refurbs that I hadn't planned to do.
Speaker 2:Um, and what one of the things that I've done. You know I've had not percent credit cards and so with doing the refurbs, I have built up quite a bit of credit card debt in order to fund those, and that's also. But then, even though I've used that money for a genuine purpose of adding value to property, that has also been what's caused some of the problem for getting the remortgage, and the banks have looked and gone oh, you've got credit card debt. We don't like that. But but literally today the mortgage offer has come through, so the refurb money is now coming back to me from the uh, from the refurb, from sorry, from the remortgage. So, yeah, it's been stressful and it's just been a case of batting on and keep going and and now, now the money is coming back and mid-monthly outgoings will be dropping because I have so many credit card bills to pay well, that's good.
Speaker 1:There's always a silver lining. And isn't it funny how the banks they like to give you mortgages on properties and things that are decent properties. They also like to give you credit cards. They like you to spend all the money and stuff, but when push comes to shove and you actually need a bit of help and support in your business, it all of a sudden becomes very difficult.
Speaker 2:Yeah it. You know they want to put you on in order to do a refurb. They either want to put you on bridging at crazy high interest rates and it just seems, and when you go for a valuation, they'll only lend you what it's worth at that particular time. So it can be quite challenging to get the money you need to do the refurb. To add the value and that's where I've found it quite hard this year is it's like, well, on the one hand, you're wanting us to maintain and look after the properties, but it does seem that they quite is quite difficult for sometimes for them to release the money that you need in order to do what they want you to do. Yeah, yeah, so so that's obviously moving forward. Um, and again, a lot of why I'm now doing the networking is I'm looking to find people I can work with. You know where we can help each other out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's good, yeah, because, yeah, working with the banks with the traditional way and I think, the way some of these people work in the banks, I don't actually think the banks altogether understand property investing.
Speaker 1:No, they don't?
Speaker 2:I mean, one of the crazy things that came back on the valuation survey was there's been mining in the area. We need more information. So when I went back to them what information do you need? And they were like, oh, we'll have to go away and find out. So they were asking me for information and they didn't know what they wanted. It's absolutely crazy, isn't it? Well, how can I answer when you don't know what you want Exactly? So yeah, get me something specific.
Speaker 1:How can I answer when you don't know what you want Exactly? So yeah, get me something specific and I'll go out there and find it. But yeah, there's been mining in the area Great stuff but there's been mining everywhere in and around here.
Speaker 2:So yeah, on that one, I'm glad I had a broker between me and the bank, because I might have got a little bit sarcastic.
Speaker 1:Too right, too right, and going to your first property that was like £28,000,. How much is that worth now?
Speaker 2:I think it's worth about £165,000, but the bank said £150,000. Okay, okay, well, it's a funny time at the moment, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, if you was to try and find a property in the Home Valley for £150,000 and actually buy one, yeah, you're going to struggle to find anything at the money they've valued it at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's not bad uplift, is it?
Speaker 2:No, no, obviously, it's had 20, 25 years' worth of rent as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly that's the beauty of it all. At the end of the day, you've still got the asset. It's still going up in value Not as much as you'd like from the banks.
Speaker 2:It's been paid off once.
Speaker 1:Nice Well, yeah, but it's good to use it and leverage it, isn't it to help you grow your existing portfolio? Yeah, and I can't complain because that house has bought me both a car and a caravan. Nice, very nice. It's not bad, is it? It's not bad going. That's what we like to say about property. You know, it's always it's great to have any assets and things and, of course, over time, that's where you seriously see the power of property investing in it yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:so yeah, the uh, the first caravan I bought and the and a car I bought, both basically come out of that property. Wow, that's great, and it's provided me deposits. It provided a deposit for another property as well, so you know I can't come, even though I had a stressful time.
Speaker 1:I can't really complain about how it's done for me over the period I've had it. Well, no, that's it, and I think also that you know property can be slow, can be frustrating, can be stressful as well, but there are some little bonuses that come with it as well, isn't there? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, which is always nice to see. So what's the sort of future plans, then, for your portfolio? What are you sort of looking at? What sort of deals are you sort of focusing on?
Speaker 2:um, I'm really looking for more properties now that I can use as sa, but I'm quite open to if a deal presents itself and it works. I'll look at what that property can be used for. So I'm quite, I'm quite fluid in the direction that I would go. But yeah, I mean recently I did look at an opportunity to buy some flats came along and I looked at partnering with some of the guys that I've met through PIN to purchase them, which, if that had come through, that would have been a massive deal for me because we'd agreed that I could have either been 50 owner without putting any of my own money in on that one um. But unfortunately, with that particular deal, um, somebody else came in and offered too much money for the flat so that one fell through. But the you know, with that particular deal, the the investors were willing to work that way, because I'm in the UK, they're not. So I was doing all the legwork and setting everything up and that actually came off.
Speaker 2:The back of. The agent had rung me up to see if I got any properties to rent out because they were looking to manage more properties, and I just turned around and said, well, I've nothing to rent at the moment. But if you're selling something that would work, then, uh, you know, if you can provide me with a property that I can then let you manage, then I'm interested. So that that came from that um. And then recently although it's gone cold and I need to chase this lead up that same agent sort of asked me I've got a £7 million portfolio coming up, are you interested? And I kind of went, yeah, all right then. Whether or not I think I'll ever come from that or not, I don't know, but I'll cross that bridge when it comes.
Speaker 1:But yeah don't know and but I'll cross that bridge when it comes. But yeah, a seven million portfolio is good, because not there aren't many people actually that are going to want to have a look at that. So you know, you can probably get quite creative on that so it's got.
Speaker 2:I keep. I keep following it, though, but yeah, it's been probably a couple of months since I've checked in to see what was happening with it. Um, but that one's gone quiet. But but again, if I keep talking to that estate agent, eventually something's going to come from that.
Speaker 1:Well, that's it. You just keep talking to people innit.
Speaker 2:But yeah, when he presented that, that was definitely a bit of a how much.
Speaker 1:Well it is. I mean, sometimes it can be quite a shocker when you see prices like that and things, but if the deal stacks up it's still a good deal. You know, you still get people interested and it just goes to show that getting out there and networking with people, meeting people also is open up opportunities for you to do deals. Like you know, the blocks of flats and everything.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, without the community it would have been a flat. No, I'm not even. I can't do that because I'd have been a flat. No, I can't do that because I'd have been thinking I need 25% deposit. And where on earth am I going to find 25% deposit for something like that?
Speaker 1:I'm not.
Speaker 2:But if I can work with other people and find creative ways of structuring a deal, then the possibilities are there. So yeah, I mean the project I'm now working on as main contractor again. I'm hoping this is going to open me some doors because it's town centre property. We're dealing with a landlord that owns multiple. Well, he's running a business that owns multiple properties, which is his grandparents' business, and I'm also dealing with an estate agent as part of running the project. So I'm hoping that's a a little bit of a door in where I can have the right kind of conversations should be, shouldn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know. So I've got an estate agent and somebody who owns a lot of town center properties. Um, so the shops that we're currently going to be working on have got empty flats above them. Nice, I just need to keep pecking away and doing a little bit of digging and see whether anything can ever come of that, but yeah, Well, it's quite a good plan by your good self to put yourself in that sort of working environment where those opportunities are there, aren't they?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's quite a good plan by your good self to, you know, put yourself in that sort of working environment where those opportunities are there aren't they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, absolutely, and without being on that contract, I would have never have met that landlord. Yeah, so you know, the opportunity to open up the conversation wouldn't have come without being on the project that I'm on.
Speaker 1:No right, and that's good. It's good, it's nice to get out there and do those sorts of things, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, uh, it didn't seem like the kind of guy that's that interested in the property, but he's just inherited it from them. Ah right, okay, that makes sense. He's running it on behalf of his grandparents, so I kind of got the impression he's not really that that interested right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, he's just just going out there at the moment now and and that's it. That's. The other crazy thing is, everybody's got their own circumstances, haven't they? Or the reason why they want to do deals, or they get creative with deals absolutely yeah, or the reason why they want to do deals, or they get creative with deals, absolutely yeah. Brilliant stuff, brilliant stuff. So what?
Speaker 2:does Dave do for fun? I tend to head to places where there's big hills and mountains, so I love the outdoors. So skiing is definitely one of my passions, or, more recently, snowboarding. I like going out, walking in places like the lake district. So yeah, for the holidays and things I tend to head to where there's either lakes or mountains, or preferably both. Um, nice, nice.
Speaker 2:Well, you can't everybody needs a hobby yeah, yeah, and you know again, I'm always pottering at home in in the garden, and you know I like building things yeah, well, that's what it's all about.
Speaker 1:I suppose that comes in handy with the properties you've been doing as well absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I think even as I get bigger. Um, I know you're obviously you usually advise that you know you should be back and managing and finding the deals, but I still quite like doing some of the work. So an ideal situation would be in a position where I can pick and choose the bits that I actually work on, rather than get somebody else to do the bulk of the work that I'm not bothered about doing. But then I'd go in and do the the nice jobs and that's what a rich life's all about.
Speaker 1:For me, it's being able to choose what you do, what you don't do. You know there's certain things that people like to. I've got quite a few friends as well that get their hands grubby and get in there. Some of them like the ripout stage and stuff. They just like to go and smash down walls and things like that.
Speaker 2:But turn them out of enjoyment from uh, smashing walls down, as long as you make sure you know, as long as you know which walls you can smash down well, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:That's it so, dave, what I like to do is a quick fire round to find out a little bit more about people and things like that. You up for it? Yeah, let's go. Good, good, good stuff. So what's some of the best advice you've been given?
Speaker 2:I think the probably the best advice that most recently is get yourself educated.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, I think that has got to be certainly some of the the best advice. I think another piece of good advice which I need to somehow take notice of is don't do everything yourself, yeah, which I am very guilty of doing far too much myself, um, wearing too many hats, yeah. So, yeah, I think I think that's another great piece of advice that I've got to work on.
Speaker 1:I think we're all working at that one as well, because, yeah, it's all too easy to get sucked into that trap, isn't it? Yeah absolutely yeah. So, dave, if you could sit down and have dinner with three people, dead or alive, who would you like to sit down and have dinner with? It could be anybody.
Speaker 2:Now, that's a oh, that is a tricky one. It's something I've never, really I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's not something I've ever thought about, that these people, they don't know how to go. Well, I'd certainly like to get into the brain of Elon Musk or, I think, richard Branson, yeah, because I mean he's done amazing deals, hasn't he? You know, he started from basically next to nothing. I saw a podcast with him and he didn't know the difference between net and gross until he was in his 50s. Yeah, and I'm like how could somebody build a multi-billion pound industry that had to have his accountant explain the difference between net and gross? You know, so I just love, yeah, I've loved the bit. I talk to somebody like him and just think how have you done what you've done? Yeah, and of course, you know he's managed to do that. Be just placing the right people in the right places, hasn't he?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, what you're referring to. There, wasn't it? Fish in a basket. He said to him when you've taken those fish out, the ones you've, got left. That's your actual profit. And he was like I've got it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was a real absolute. It blew my mind that somebody so successful had not picked that up yet. I think how can you have had, you know, possibly 30 years in business and not know that fundamental difference? It just absolutely blew my mind that you know, he didn't know.
Speaker 1:But do you know, what I think is well on that one is because, with richard branson and a lot of people like him, it's not about the money, it's about what they're actually trying to do. So it's almost like this burning desire to create something unique, something that's different, something that's out there, and money normally comes as a byproduct from it. A lot of us end up trying to chase the money, whereas if we actually chase, or we look at trying to be the best at what we're doing and maybe even creating something new, the money's normally a byproduct, as long as you're in the right industry doing the right things, isn't it?
Speaker 2:well, yeah, I mean when I, when I was growing up, he was basically on every every talk show, wogan and whatever bbc talk show it on, he would fly in a balloon or something. He wasn't really doing anything to do with business, was he?
Speaker 1:No, I always remember him in a hot air balloon. Yeah, he always seemed to be going around the world in a hot air balloon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then he decided to set up an airline. You know it's like you know, you think, wow, how can you? You know the millions or billions of pounds you need for an airline. How do you go about? You know, just going yeah, I'm gonna have an airline.
Speaker 1:Well it's airlines, it's trains, it's cruises, it's music, you name it. It keeps going, doesn't it yeah?
Speaker 2:so yeah, so yeah, to spend time with somebody like that and understand how they've achieved. So yeah, to spend time with somebody like that and understand how they've achieved what seems impossible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so that's one. You've still got two more seats.
Speaker 2:I think yeah, I'm trying to think now, but yeah, he's definitely, I think, the other sort of in terms of more groups of people that inspire me. In fact, one person who I have spent time with and I'd like to spend time with is a guy called Graham, and he's achieved amazing things through adversity and nobody will have ever heard of him. Amazing things through adversity and nobody will have ever heard of him. But graham came off his motorbike, um, when he was about 20, and since then he's run a farm from a wheelchair and he's disabled from his waist down, you know, and I find him absolutely inspiring.
Speaker 2:You know, he's living a very ordinary life, um, and he's just so ingenious. You know, he converted his own car to be um hand controls. So he, you know, he welded bits onto the pedals so that he had hand controls for driving his van. And, you know, he built his own. He built his own stairlift, which was the, which was the front end of a forklift truck in his house, you know. So, so graham, yeah, what, he's the kind of guy that kept going again when a lot of people would have given up, and when when things were difficult, where, where he's just got that mentality of you've got to keep going. So I think you know, whilst he's not wealthy, I think he's given, you know, a really inspired life, and just proving that if you want to do something, you can do it in spite of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean so, grahamham I've known, since I was an apprentice, you know, and he used to come into the joiners shop with, in his wheelchair, with his, you know, with his dog, and you know we used to have a, have such a laugh and, you know, and he were quite happy to have a laugh about his disability. There were no, there were no barriers, he could, you could say anything to him because he was going to come back at you with something anyway, so, yeah, so, yeah, number three, who would I go for? Number three, yeah, yeah, who would I go for? Yeah, you know. Yeah, what am I for? Yeah, you've thrown a curveball at me at that.
Speaker 2:I have and I made you think yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, I think you know I tell you what. Dan Brown's an author that I really like reading and I'd love to know where he got the inspiration from for his stories. When I've read some of his books it's it's almost felt like he's um predicted the future. You know things. He did deception point, which was a story about nasa, and he wrote that before nasa stopped flying. But there were so many things in that book that have happened since and I just say I just love to know what did he have inside knowledge? Has he researched it or, you know, has that just come from intuition and you know it? It has it just happened? You know? Has he thought about things?
Speaker 2:And I just find, I find that amazing that things like that have things have come true, that he's written as a piece of fiction and they're a good read and they just his books get you thinking. You're reading it, it's a novel and you're thinking, well, could this actually be true? Because there does seem to be quite a lot of truth in his works of fiction. You're reading it, it's a novel and you're thinking well, couldn't this actually be true? Because there is quite there does seem to be quite a lot of truth in his works of fiction.
Speaker 1:Mental. That's cool. That's cool. My son always refers to the Simpsons. When we watch watching the Simpsons, it's like that's actually happened. That's happened. That's happened. They wrote it. They. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's cool. There you are.
Speaker 1:You've got your table now. Brilliant stuff. Well, that leads us on to the next thing. If you had top three books that you think you know listeners or people watching, this might enjoy.
Speaker 2:One book that I've read recently and it's been a really helpful book is Mo Gowdat's Unstressable Okay yeah.
Speaker 2:I found that that has been a really useful book in that it explains really what stress is and it helps you work through why you're getting stressed when you really really shouldn't be doing. And also, you know, I listen to his podcast quite a lot and I found a lot of his stories and a lot of the things that he told. The way he's dealt with the challenges he's had in his life, I think is really really inspirational. Yeah, life I think is really really inspirational. Yeah, um, and just techniques of you know, not letting silly things wind you up. You know, like the person who um, cut you up while you were driving to work, you know, because it's um, you get little tiny stresses throughout the day that build up to the point where you snap and it's just learning how to let those really pointless things no longer bother you. So I think he's definitely been inspirational. Have you read?
Speaker 1:sorry just on that one have you read sorry, just on that one. Have you read Soul for Happy? Not yet, no, obviously. That's brilliant, nice. I actually got emotional reading the first chapter of that, because obviously he talks about his son and what happened there and everything, so that's a really good read as well.
Speaker 2:I think that book he wrote prior to the one that I've just read, which, yeah, it's on the reading list but I've not read it yet.
Speaker 2:Again, I've read quite a few of the Rob Moore books on money and leverage, which, again, they're good books for getting your mindset and thinking about money in a different way to what people do traditionally, um, so, yeah, at the moment I've got life read. Life leverage is a book that I read, probably a few weeks ago, um, which, which is a lot of it is common sense, but it sort of reinforces what you need to be doing. Yeah, and then what else? Which other book other? And of course, there's the book that everybody in property has read the Rich Dad, poor Dad yeah, what did you?
Speaker 2:think I liked. I liked the way it told the story of, you know, being a being a child and how he had the his friend's dad as a mentor and you know he got his two dads, you know, he basically talks about something that I suppose is quite complex, but in a very simple way. You know so, and it's almost like he's telling it from two different perspectives and I thought that were, you know, a really good way of sort of explaining the difference between somebody who's gone through the formal education and has been educated to do a job and somebody else who's thinking about business and looking at things through a different lens.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah, the entrepreneur's perspective, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Yeah, no, it's a good one. I enjoyed the cash flow quadrant as well, which was, I think, the second one, but yeah, it's one of those. I mean, obviously you were already doing it with your good debt, bad debt and everything. You're already streets ahead.
Speaker 1:But yeah, when I read it all and stuff, the contrasts are it's night and day. It's almost like myself, and probably you know to a point. A lot of people, we go down the corporate road, we do the corporate job and everything, and then all of a sudden we might start a business or we might start doing something for ourself, and all of a sudden it's that different way of thinking, and some people can't ever change that thinking either, can they? I mean, my dad was very much a corporate man and that's what he did, that's what he loved, and there's no right or wrong answers to this. But I'm completely the opposite. I'm more. I want to get out there and do it for myself and have all the stress and worry that comes with it, but at least I'm growing something for me.
Speaker 2:Well, for long enough, I was quite happy with the idea of working for somebody else and letting somebody else have the stress. And you know, prior to the 2008 crash, you could have quite a good life on a wage, yeah. But ever since then, it's got harder and harder and harder to have a reasonable standard of living working from a wage. So, you know, I think it's got to a snapping point where I've gone. Yeah, I need to do something about this. It's not working for me anymore, and I think I've also, as I've got older, I've got where I need a bit more autonomy. I don't want to be following somebody else's procedure and doing what somebody else is telling me to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah. So I think having a bit more autonomy is something else that I've been been needing. You know, there's ways of doing things and, yeah, if you're doing it, if you've got somebody else telling you how to do things and it doesn't feel like it works, it starts to grind on you after a while, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:so it does does.
Speaker 2:I think that's a big thing for why I've changed yeah, autonomy.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice, love it, love it. Well, it's been absolutely great to have you on my friend and to tell us about your story and everything Very inspirational, and it's always great to obviously keep in contact and see your progression and everything and what you're doing. If people are watching this or listening to this or anything like that, what sort of final thoughts would you have, you know, to help other people out there?
Speaker 2:I think the biggest thing is don't give up. You've just got to keep moving forward. You know, I think, as Timothy Witt once said, we are designed, you know, we are designed to be stressed. That's not what he said, was it? We are designed to be challenged. I think he says something like that, and he's right. We're not meant to have it easy. If things are too easy, you get bored. So I think you've just got to keep moving forward. Keep going, don't give up. Or keep learning, Don't give up, and you know, keep learning. Don't think you know it all. Or another phrase that I really don't like hearing is when people say I'm too old for this. I'm like no, You're never too old, Just keep going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's great. That's great and, at the end of the day, a lot of the stress and a lot of the challenges and stuff that we have, are they really that bad? You know what I mean when you think of other people that are, you know, living in different societies, living in different countries, and things that are actually fighting for their lives and stuff. The challenges and the things that come our way aren't really that bad if you put it into perspective, are they they?
Speaker 2:No, no Again. I think that's where Mo Gowder's book came in learning how to deal with that and basically try and compartmentalise the stress so that, yeah, you are going through that, but trying to learn to stop yourself thinking about it constantly and manifesting it into something far worse than what it really is, which I think. I think most people are guilty of overthinking and creating something into a bigger problem than what it really is. So I think, yeah, one of the things is you know what, get on and and do do the thing rather than worrying about the thing I like that get on and do it rather than worrying about it.
Speaker 1:Worry about it afterwards. I? I like the other Get on and do it rather than worrying about it, worry about it afterwards. I. Like the other thing as well is ask for forgiveness, not permission. Get on with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've done that a few times.
Speaker 1:And it works though, doesn't it? It works, yeah, yeah, no, that's good, that's good. And just a quick one how are you finding?
Speaker 2:uh, eta, yeah, it's a nice little community. There's a lot of a lot of information in there, a lot of things to learn, so, um, so yeah, I think I think there's a lot of potential there for it to grow into a great community that's the plan.
Speaker 1:Is that's the plan? So? But by investors, for investors and, like I say, it's great to have you in there, uh, and the other community members as well. So, dave, great to have you in there, and the other community members as well. So, dave, great to have you on today. My friend, absolute pleasure. We'd love to get you on again in the future to find out what you're up to, because I know you're always up to something, you little devil, you yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah, we're good.
Speaker 2:Thank you, no, and thank you for the opportunity to be on my first ever podcast there you go, there you go, and I expect you'll be on many more as well, my friend. Yeah, also. Yeah, this has been one of those things that, yeah, I just decided I've been putting it off, I've been procrastinated.
Speaker 1:Go on, let's just do it, screw it, let's do it. As Richard Branson would say. Yeah, absolutely Brilliant stuff, brilliant stuff, well, great. Thanks a lot again for coming on. So I hope you've enjoyed this episode. If you have, do feel free to subscribe, like share it with anybody you think will enjoy it as well. I will be getting more guests on and obviously keeping up with the knowledge with what's going on in the property world as well, and the Property Unleashed podcast is here to help and support you, so please do check it out. If you've enjoyed it and you've taken anything away from it, do feel free to leave us a review, because it helps us in the rankings and everything. Listen, if you've listened to this and not enjoyed it, don't leave me a review. How about that? So it's great to have you here today. I look forward to you joining me in the next episode very soon. Take care and bye for now.