The Property Unleashed Podcast

Throwback Thursday: Building A Serviced Accommodation Business With Nigel Pinder

• Mark Fitzgerald • Episode 329

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In this throwback episode, we revisit an inspiring conversation with Nigel Pinder, who shares how he went from corporate burnout to building a thriving serviced accommodation business—all while still working full-time in finance.

Through property investing, he's found renewed purpose, improved mental health, and a path toward creating more time for his family.

• Nigel's background includes a successful career in banking and finance spanning over 20 years
• Mental health challenges and feeling trapped in his corporate role led him to explore property investing options
• Starting in early 2022, Nigel secured his first service accommodation unit in April
• Now managing five units targeting primarily contractor clients with excellent occupancy rates
• Balancing a corporate career with property investing requires careful time management and family consideration
• The importance of building systems and processes to scale a service accommodation business effectively
• Setting a target of £10K monthly cash flow from service accommodation in 2023
• Family is the primary motivation - creating time freedom to be present for his wife and children
• The value of community and mentorship in accelerating the property journey
• Avoiding "shiny penny syndrome" by focusing on one strategy before diversifying

If you're interested in learning more about service accommodation or getting started with property investing, head over to thepropertyunleashed.com for free tools and resources or to learn about our Ultimate Service Accommodation Business Builder program.


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  • My NEW Community for property investors called Property Education To Action, This is the best place to achieve your property goals and build the life you desire. https://educationtoaction.com



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Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the Property Unleashed with me, Mark Fitzgerald, and today I have a special guest. I do enjoy these special guests. Nigel Pinder is joining me Now. Nigel has a property investing company called NKB Property Solutions and is predominantly a serviced accommodation provider. So welcome to the show, Nigel. Great to have you on.

Speaker 2:

Thank you very much. Good to be here. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Good, good, good, good, good, good. Now, normally I would do a big intro and read out your bio and everything like that, but I thought I'd try something new today, so I'm just going to let you tell us all about yourself.

Speaker 2:

Okay, fine, yeah, okay, that's cool. I guess where do I start. If I'm honest, I think I am very similar to an awful lot of people out there who've had a corporate role for a period of time and, for a variety of reasons, are looking for something new, something different. And, you know, probably all got our different reasons and we probably all get to that point at a different time. But yeah, essentially I've had a background, I would say, perhaps not too dissimilar to yours, mark, and I think I share very similar values to yourself, particularly around family and the importance of that. And, looking in terms of when you think about what is your why, I think family is high top of the list for me, as I know it is for yourself as well.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, I've had a long, fairly successful corporate career. I qualified as an accountant way back when, back in my early 20s, and worked in banking, investment banking and finance for a large part of that time since and, for the most part, thoroughly enjoyed it. It's been a good career, it's been a rewarding career I'm not going to shy away from that but sometimes it can be a bit of a blessing and a curse in that when you then think, okay, I'd quite like to maybe try something new. Or maybe I've reached a point where I'm not jumping out of bed in the morning new or maybe I've reached a point where I'm not jumping out of bed in the morning, um, you know, when you've got a good income to replace, it's quite difficult to maybe make that, make that jump, to switch from one thing to another. And you know, I've probably had that at the back of my mind for for several years now. Um, I think I've reached a point career-wise where you know I'm I know that I'm not necessarily going to progress to that next step I've reached a bit of a level, a bit of a plateau, um, but I think the the real drive for me is family.

Speaker 2:

As I touched upon, um, and I think probably, if I turn the clock back, sort of 18 months, two years ago, um, well, I was actually having a lot of challenges myself personally, a lot of mental health challenges whereby I really wasn't happy in myself. I was finding that my self-confidence, my self-worth were very low and, you know, a significant contributor to that was my career, you know, not feeling that I was enjoying it, you know massively, but ultimately, that I'm spending an awful lot of time trading time for money, not enjoying it, not having as much to show at the end of it as I would want, and, you know, it just kind of gradually chips away. And it was really, it just kind of gradually chips away and it and it was really bringing me down. Um, you know, and I and I and I found myself in a position I remember it well actually that I think the real turning point for me was, um, I was away for a weekend with um, with my wife and our young daughter, and uh, on the Sunday we were a water park, a splash park it was. It was brilliant on the sunday, having a great day, but like a cloud came over me on the sun. You know, we all get slight blues on a sunday sometimes.

Speaker 2:

You know, going back, if you're in that corporate role, going back to the monday nine to five, uh, and and it just it's like a wall in front of me. And I said to my wife, in the middle of a splash bar I can't go to work tomorrow, I just can't do it, you know, I just can't face it. And I said, you know, and she's like it's okay, you know, have a day off, give yourself some time. And the day turned to two days and it turned to a week and I just needed that time just to sort of step back, almost reassess where I was at, what I was doing, why I was doing it. And to this day I'm still in that very role, but it's. It just made me sort of, I guess, reprioritize and refocus and think well, ok, what, what do I want, both now and also, you know, longer term. And you know I could say I'm 45 years old.

Speaker 2:

I like to think of myself more as 45 years young, in that, you know, I've still got an awful lot of time, um, you know, to be working, to be contributing, um, and I want to be enjoying that time, um, but equally, I want to be looking after my family, both now and in the future. So, you know, property had always been at the back of my mind, um, like so many of us, um, I've enjoyed watching all the property programs down the years, whether or not it's Phil and Kirsty or Sarah Beeney, or you know, or the daytime ones when I'm meant to be working from home, but I've secretly got on in the background. I, you know, I've always enjoyed those and, again, like a lot of people I've. You know I can do that, you know I'd like to do that, um, but a lot of what you see on these programs is, yes, people buying an auction, buying from their own own savings.

Speaker 2:

You know, and I was like I don't really know how I can, how can I get, how can I get into it? And, as I said, I've had a corporate role which I've been very fortunate has has given me a good income on a monthly basis and I couldn't just, I couldn't just walk away from that. So income and cash flow was certainly something that I needed to to consider as a very high up my priority list, and so I was like, well, ok, whilst it started off, as how can I earn sufficient income as quickly as possible to maybe enable me to sort of change or walk away from my day job, I kind of soon realised, ok, take a step back. You know, you kind of got to do this in the right way, a professional way, and I think, as you've touched upon many a time, you've got to build a business. You know, the last thing I want is to just literally do something on the side and end up juggling all the balls which you know, and serviced accommodation especially, are two areas, two strategies that I'm interested in, I can look to pursue and I can get going now. There was nothing other than you know what's between my ears stopping me from starting.

Speaker 2:

You know it took me a while to get to that point. I ruled out things like deal sourcing because as much as they can bring some immediate cash flow, there's a lot of work that goes into it and once you've got that, you've got to do it all over again. So you know there's that pressure, ongoing pressure, unless you've got any other regular income coming in. So went around in a few circles really, but realised that, yeah, rent to rent, service accommodation, were two things I could get going on and I was interested in. So I started on that journey in about January, february of last year and it was April time.

Speaker 2:

I was fortunate enough to get my first unit, a local, local company that I reached out to. Yeah, I had a property that, yeah, ticks all the boxes and I was able to get my first first property in April time and gradually over the course of last year I built that up to what's now five units, got my fifth unit just before Christmas and, out of interest. The fifth unit is actually with the same landlord, that um that I got my first one with, um, so I'm obviously doing something okay, because they were more than happy to sign another contract and hand the keys over again. So um got five units. They range from a two-bed apartment up to a five-bed house, um, and predominantly, uh, I'm targeting the contractor market, um, and my my mindset on that initially was very much well, you can go for the leisure market, you can go for the sort of weekend guests, but there's two nights in a weekend, there's sort of five nights in the rest of the week. Surely you want to get that balance right. And, yeah, contractors is the market that I predominantly target and thankfully it's going incredibly well. You know, I'm not going to lie, I'm very pleased with how it's going In fact.

Speaker 2:

In fact, january, which we're just coming out of, which is quite often a struggle for a lot of people in serviced accommodation, it's a quieter time of the year. All five of my units were were full, four of them with 100% bookings, contractors throughout the whole month, and the fifth one just on like a Monday to Friday basis. So I had the weekends free. But you know, overall across all the units I was.

Speaker 2:

You know I'm chuffed with how that is at this moment and I know that that's not a you know, that's not a promise for how it's going to be moving forward. It's going to go through waves and peaks and troughs, but, you know, I feel I've set something up which has started really well and, yeah, I think this is, I see this as the beginning for me to open up, hopefully, lots of other opportunities within property. Both, to, you know, have a business that brings in, you know, regular income, but also build wealth, build legacy moving forward. Both, you know, for myself also, build, build wealth, build legacy moving forward. Both, you know, for myself, for my, for my wife and our children. Um, so, yeah, that I was going to say in a nutshell that was a very big nutshell, but, uh, that that is essentially me in terms of how I've come to to be where I am right now oh, that's great.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for sharing that as well, because, um, I think there's a lot of people that are out there and have been where you, you were and where I was, where you do have the day job, you have a, you have a decent income coming in and you feel trapped because you think to yourself I can try and get another job, but I don't really want another job.

Speaker 1:

I want more time, freedom, I want to be spending time with the people that I love and and doing something that I'm passionate about and I think a lot of us as well in corporate. For me at the beginning of my corporate career, it was exciting, it was good, it was nice working your way up the ladder, but you do hit those sort of ceilings where you think to yourself this is probably about as much as I could do in this company, in this organization. I would have to move. Do I really want to just continue that rat race? And I said for five years realistic. I mean, I had 16 years in what I was doing and I think for five years of those I was a bit lost.

Speaker 1:

I was a shadow of who I am now, with the passion and wanting to get out there and everything, and of course, what you've built has now given you choices as well. It does give you that side income and of course, it is noisy. Everything you start is hard work. It is noisy, blood, sweat and tears. I always say plenty of tears, plenty of blood as well, but you will get there as long as you persevere and you surround yourself with the right things. So I mean congratulations as well on your fifth unit. That is superb. You've got a good portfolio there and it's all about bringing in a bit of cash flow and then, of course, building up that property portfolio for yourself. So you know, at the moment, are you still still working?

Speaker 2:

yeah. So I am still working, um, still, you know, still got that corporate role, um, unfortunately enough. I think that you know, as with a lot of us in the kind of current environment, I I get to work from home a lot of the time, I can work remotely and ultimately I can spread the work over the course of a day a little bit, so I am able to sort of keep you know, keep the, you know, keep the serviced accommodation properties, kind of, if I need to attend to them, if I need to do anything. I'm able to juggle both balls at the moment. But you know, the long term plan is obviously build up things on the on the property side so that I can walk away from that. But it's all about timing, it's about doing that in the right way, and I think, if I turn the clock back X amount of months, I thought, well, ok, if I get to a certain amount of units or a certain cash flow, maybe I can. Then you know that cash flow will be sufficient to enable me to walk away. That will replace my income. However, in building up a cash flow, I'm also building a business, and when building a business, you have to reinvest in it, you know. So what I'm trying to do at the moment is any cash flow that that is coming from the service accommodation, is any cash flow that is coming from the serviced accommodation might get reinvested into a new unit or hopefully builds up a buffer for the periods unlike January that were successful, maybe some of the quieter months when maybe things don't go quite to plan. So I think that kind of what was a plan of giving me the option to leave the corporate role, you know, perhaps sooner rather than later, I'm just maybe sort of just trying to be sensible about that because you know I can carry on with someone I think you touched upon.

Speaker 2:

You just mentioned a couple of words. You sort of said you're, you know, a shadow of yourself. You felt a little bit lost and if I turn the clock back, I was definitely like that. I think what getting involved in property, getting in, you know, getting these number of units going, is it's giving me a real boost, giving me a real um injection which I think I can take back into the day job because I can recognize okay, this, this isn't everything.

Speaker 2:

You know, this, I'm doing this, you know, and I can try and make the make the most of it and you know, in the most part it's absolutely fine it really is but but I think it's trying to have that perspective on it and I think getting involved in property and seeing other doors potentially open, other options further down the line, I think it's just given me that wider perspective, which is important because, as I said it was, it was impacting me heavily in my you know my day-to-day life and you know you don't want to bring any negative thoughts, feelings, emotions from work back home into your family life, because that's that's not fair on your family, that's not what, it's not what you want to do.

Speaker 1:

So, um, so yeah, still still still got the day job, but, um, but you know I'm seeing other options opening up ahead of me but there's nothing wrong with that because, as I say to a lot of people myself now, if you want to build a property business alongside your full-time job and I know people that are staying their full-time jobs because they they actually enjoy them I mean, what's that all about at the end of the day? But it is the options. It just means that if something happened, or you know, you, you, you god forbid or whatever were made redundant or something like that, it's like holy moly, I'm not just out on the air, I've got something working for me and it's it's quite nice, it's a nice feeling to have, but it also gives it from. From my perspective, it gave me a purpose. When I started in the property thing because you're always're always I was always thinking I want to start something, I want my own business, I want my own business. What should I do? I've got to reinvent something. But then when I actually started getting down and very much the same as you, everybody sees you picking up all these properties and of course you are making money, but you're then reinvesting that money on more properties, on building the properties and things like that.

Speaker 1:

Now, I took voluntary redundancy, so I had to take some of the money. So it really was a case that I had to really watch what I was doing, which is why I predominantly went for the HMOs, because I was going for properties that were already set up. I didn't have to put a level of money into service accommodation. A lot of the times you've got to address dress things, you've got to make it extra special at the end of the day. So it does take that reinvestment, but of course you can. It's not necessarily an investment that's coming, I say, out of your pocket, it's coming out of your business. Your business is just basically reinvesting in itself and if you don't have to take a wage from that, you can potentially, like momentum, invest in, build your business quicker can't you exactly exactly that.

Speaker 2:

And you know I was in a position that I could, um, you know, put, put some money in to begin with, um, or, you know, access money, be it savings, borrowings, what have you? Um, but yeah, the last few units, ultimately, you know, the first three units pay for number four to be set up. That pays for number five to be set up, um, and, and yeah, that's when you know you get that momentum. And yeah, I've kind of hit the pause button just for a little bit now, as we've entered in the new year, january.

Speaker 2:

You know, whilst on the service accommodation side it was, um, thankfully, quite quiet, you know, the properties were booked, um, there weren't a whole heap of issues cropping up, thankfully, but on a personal level and back in the day job, january was very full on, so I kind of hit the pause button. But again, I'm I was able to hit the pause button because it was at a point that you know it had that momentum. It's got to that level, um, but yeah, I'm, I'm always, you know, looking for the next opportunity for unit number six, for the next landlord to, you know, hopefully, come knocking. So hopefully, sooner rather than later, that we'll pick it up again and grow it further.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think, yeah, and I actually think you know, 2023 is a fantastic time as well, particularly, you know, for property investing, because you know the market's not as buoyant as it was. So for people to know what they're doing, it can come in here, solve problems with good solutions. That can be a win-win for everybody, of course. So if there's people with single-let properties and the interest rates, of course, as we know, have gone up and they're coming to the end of the mortgage term or anything, some people are going to think their properties aren't going to make them any money. So it's nice to be able to go and speak to them and say you know, have you thought about this? And we can, we can look after, we can do this for you and you can earn a bit more money and do a better job through the service accommodation, short term rental sort of market.

Speaker 2:

So I mean, I always talk about targets and everything, but what is your sort of? Have you got a target plan or a goal that you want to achieve in this year? Yeah, I have. You know I'm not the best for writing kind of goals and plans, be them long-term or short-term, and you know it's one of many areas that I really need to improve on. But I did scribble some down the other day and, you know, as I touched upon, I'm 45 now, so I don't know why, but I kind of I had this sort of like let's think, what is four and a half years? I thought I reached 50 in four and a half years. Where do I want to be then? Um, and also, where you know, bring it back, where do I want to be, maybe by the end of this year? So, um, it was, and it was almost easier to write the sort of longer-term goals than it was to sort of to bring it back and think, well, okay, what about 2023? Where do I want to be?

Speaker 2:

But but, as I said, I want to grow the service accommodation business, as I said. That's, I don't want to put too much pressure on myself with numbers in terms of this amount of thousand a month or that amount of number of units. But I just want to see it grow. I want to have all of the systems and processes in place whereby you know whether or not it's five units or 10 or 12 or 15, it doesn't become too much more of a burden or an ask on me. But ultimately, by growing it in the right way and that gives me or it gives you know from a business point of view, it gives you know the regular income and hopefully that will then enable me to spend more time, more focus on the actual, the ownership piece, whereby I can hopefully build up a portfolio. And, you know, got a whole heap of thoughts in my mind.

Speaker 2:

I'm having to be careful of shiny penny syndrome at the moment, I'll be honest. But you know I want to. You know I want to get into things like you know buy, refurb, refinance. You know commercial property is an area which I've started to look into. I think there's some good opportunities there, particularly if I do things like you know use money currently sort of locked away in my pension. If I use that in a smart way, I think there's a number of opportunities available to me. So I've kind of got a four or five year plan that is roughly taking shape and I think what that means for me this year is, yeah, just improve the processes and the efficiencies within the service accommodation business, but keep it growing um and and yeah, we'll. We'll see where that leads to and, as I said, I've got some numbers around that, but I almost don't want to put too much pressure on myself by calling, calling them out loud, uh, in front of everyone, put them into the universe.

Speaker 2:

At the end of the day, it can happen, maybe, yeah it's, it's, yeah, I think I think you know 10k a month is, I think, the sort of cash flow target that you know. If you talk to a lot of people, that seems to be the one that a lot of people have. Um, I'm not at that point far from that point with the five units that I've got, but I see that as being achievable this calendar year. I see that as being achievable this calendar year. I see that as being achievable within 2023. And again, what I think that will really do is open up other opportunities.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, that's I would say, yeah, target number one for this year is increase the SA business to get to 10K a month cash flow. If I can do that, I think that will open up other doors. And, as I said, even if I haven't got anything else in place come the end of the year in terms of sort of you know, ownership and other properties, I'd like to have some sort of wheels in motion. So, yeah, so that's really what I'm looking to do.

Speaker 1:

That's great. Love it, absolutely love it. You've got to have a vision, you've got to have some goals to go for at the end of the day, and you have, which is superb. And of course, those pesky shiny pennies get everywhere. And I must admit that even when I was fully blown, getting into my rent-to-rent business and building it, there were shiny pennies everywhere. And I was looking at all sorts of things and I've always said it. My wife said to me just focus on one thing, mark, because she is a you know, she is a steal, she is a lord when it comes to things.

Speaker 1:

And I'm not, I'm all blades so you know I'm all over the place and she was just like focus on one thing, nail it and then go and do what you want. And now we're finally out. I'm actually a year behind my five-year plan, but I can blame COVID for that, because we basically we lost the idea at the end of the day.

Speaker 1:

So this year now, we are out there now doing, you know, renovations, refurbishments, we're building up the portfolio, we're looking at doing some commercial units and things like that. And those are all the things that I've wanted to do since I started getting into property. But I needed the cash flow first. I needed that stability and I needed to systemize it, pretty much like what you're looking at doing now. Yes, systemizing it, put the moving parts into place so that it's not a full-time job but it brings in money. It works really, really well, and then it means that you've got the time freedom to go off and do those other projects.

Speaker 2:

so I think that's truly superb and uh, yeah, I think there's an awful lot of similarities there in terms of you, as you said, your journey, what you, what you chose to do, first for all of the right reasons. Yeah, I can, I can empathize pretty much, word for word, I think, with what you just said and, yeah, I plan a little bit of catch up. But but, yeah, let's, let's hope, yeah, I'll be following that path before too long.

Speaker 1:

Well, I always say you're never behind, you're where you need to be at the end of the day. Because if I was actually further forward, I'd have started doing this in my 20s, but I wouldn't even have the mindset to do it then. I was a completely different person and I always say it. My mother even says to me now she says you're so chatty, now you know you're so chatty, now you know you're always. You're always. I'm not always, but you're happy. You know what I mean. You've always got stuff going on. She says I go and I try and have a weekly coffee with my mum, because I never had that before. Do you know?

Speaker 1:

what I mean so it's nice to take her out, you know, take her for a coffee and things like that, and of course we talk about what I'm doing more. But she says, oh, it's so exciting, I love listening to what you're doing and you know things that you're putting into place and stuff like that.

Speaker 1:

So you know it is. It is a different world. But anyway, let's get back on track here. I'm getting all sideline, so I mean just just taking you back to to, uh, where you were. You know you were struggling a bit and of course what I would say is I mean, I, I was in the same boat, and it takes quite a big leap of faith, I suppose, in yourself to be able to say, right, put a you know stake in the ground. I'm now going to go and start a property business. Uh, I am going to do it alongside my job. But at the end of the day, you know you're committing to do something. Our minds play tricks on us and says, well, what happens if you fail? What happens if this happens? What happens from your perspective? Then you know, how did how did you manage to sort of overcome that and take that step?

Speaker 2:

um, it was, uh, it wasn't easy and you know, to this day, you know, certain challenges, certain issues will crop up and do crop up and you know it doesn't, you know, become easy, but you, you find ways and tools and and and ways of adapting. But but, yeah, I think, as I said it, it got to a point where I knew, I knew something had to change and I knew I had to change it. Um, you know, I've always been um, you know, in in the professional sense, in the career sense, I've always been very um, I've been confident, you know, in, in myself, in my own abilities. Um, you know, and I was doing well from a, from a young age, but I found that, you know, I wasn't suddenly that confidence was gone. You know I was having lots of self-doubt. I was, yeah, it was, it was very, my mind really was playing tricks on me and you know, to the point, you know, I was struggling to you know I say go into work.

Speaker 2:

You know whether or not it's working remotely or being in the office, but every day was becoming a real struggle, was becoming a real struggle and I was doubting myself and my own ability, which, you know, I'd never done before. So I knew I needed to change it. I knew I needed to look for, yeah, a new opportunity, because it was impacting my family life basically, and that's first and foremost what I don't want it to be doing. You know I want to be. You know I'm a husband, I'm a dad and I want to be doing all the good things that come with that. So, yeah, so last year, when I set up the property company which at the time, I wasn't sure which direction it was going to go, you know I knew there were options, I knew there were avenues that I could explore, but I wasn't when I set it up, I wasn't sure which road I would go down. So, you know, I explored a few and initially I was finding it very hard to get things going whilst also doing the day job. You know, it's like I've got family stuff going on, I've got day job stuff going on. How do I commit the time and the effort to actually get this business up and running, really really tough.

Speaker 2:

And yeah, probably less than a year ago, sort of February, march time I was close to saying can't do it or not that I can't do it, but let me just put it on the back burner. You know, I'll come back to it when I've got more time. You know, and that whole, when I've got more time it's like, well, every day has got 24 hours in it. It's how you choose to use them. So I was very close to saying, well, no, let's leave it for now. But thankfully, you know, I had some support around me, obviously my family, but you know, I had some other key individuals who sort of gave me some help and support at the time that I kept going.

Speaker 2:

And I think, getting that first unit as it was probably for a lot of people that was like, ok, well, maybe this could actually work and it gave me, yeah, like I said, a real injection of confidence, I think, to carry on. And it kind of snowballed from there, almost to the point that I had to sort of rein it in a little bit. And it was my wife who you know that sort of the two devils on your shoulder. My wife was the one who was sort of slowing it down, sort of saying rein it in a little bit. You know, maybe don't get a second unit until you know the first one's working, or you know in terms of what areas that you might look at? You know, don't go to new areas because you know how do you know that will?

Speaker 2:

work, so try to manage it all in a sensible timeframe, and I think that's helped, and I think that was probably necessary, given the day job that I'm still doing at the same time, and, I think, equally as I'm, you know, for yourself, for a lot of people here. A lot of people talk about you know why do you do it? Well, financial freedom, time freedom. I was also very mindful that, yeah, I'm doing this for financial freedom, for time freedom. I want my time to be my own so that I can use it in a way that I want to, with family, doing the valuable, the fun things.

Speaker 2:

I didn't therefore want to lose every ounce of time that I've got in the short term just to work on that longer term. So, for some people, I would say that is completely the way to go. You've got to really put the effort in, you've got to put the time in now, you know, for the future. But I kind of didn't want to lose every evening, every weekend, albeit on viewings or setting up properties, and, trust me, I lost a fair few. But you know've tried to maintain that balance throughout and I think that balance is is key, um, and yeah.

Speaker 2:

I think I think I've got it about right, um, so yeah, we'll try and maybe take that approach moving forward, I think that's great.

Speaker 1:

I mean, they're brilliant, aren't they? Wives? Absolutely brilliant. I remember my wife. I was sat in the car, I was no-transcript, it'd been a year since I'd started my property business and she just turned to me and she just said just remember, you have got a family that love you and I still gets me now, but I didn't have to say anything to that.

Speaker 1:

I was just like, yeah, I understand that Because it was it's take your foot off the gas you doing this, for I know I get caught up and I get passionate about what I'm doing. I love what I'm doing, but I got so caught up and passionate about it that, uh, yeah, I almost forgot why I was actually the reason I was doing it was the people that were in the car with me. Do you know what I mean? And I'm here and everywhere, missing everything, thinking again like I did in the corporate world. I'm doing a good job because I'm providing for my family, I'm building a legacy piece. I I'm out there doing it all, but at the end of the day, nobody's going to thank me at the end of it all and say it was great, dad, when you weren't there, but at least you know you provided for us. They're going to say why weren't you there, dad? You know what I mean.

Speaker 1:

Where were you when I was playing basketball? Where were you when I got an award? And that's what I've realised myself over the last three years. Those are the moments that are priceless. You can't put a price on those. You could give me a million pounds now, but if you said to me I couldn't over go and watch my kids playing basketball or doing any of their activities or anything, I don't care about the money, it's about being around the people, isn't it? And I think that's massive.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, how hard can it be? I've got three children. I've got two teenage children who live with their mum predominantly, but are with us each week as well, and I missed out on quite a lot when they were growing up, when they were younger, because and times were different, perhaps in terms of there wasn't the same flexibility with work, in terms of working from home, etc. But I missed out on, you know, a number of sports days, parents evenings, etc. Because you know I was at work, um, and.

Speaker 2:

But you know, looking back, how stupid is that what? What was I doing at work on that given day? That was more important, absolutely nothing, you know. And it, yeah, it eats away Each time. It eats away at you a little bit. But myself and my wife are fortunate enough to have an amazing little five-year-old daughter. She is just the world to us and I don't want to miss out on anything with her, you know so, yeah, it's financial freedom providing for them in the caveman sense, you know so. So, yeah, it's financial freedom providing for them in the in the caveman sense, you know.

Speaker 2:

But, but time freedom is, is, is everything as well, um, and, and it was interesting last year actually, we there was and I think it was, and it was one of those moments, a bit of a light bulb moment, that this really could work. You know when, um, we, we were fortunate enough, I think, post covid, everything else we hadn't had a proper holiday for you know, a couple of years, as a lot of people hadn't, and we were on our first proper holiday, um, for a long time. Um, we went to greece. It was a fantastic um holiday.

Speaker 2:

Whilst whilst we were there, I just had the one unit Only. The first unit was set up, but whilst I was away, I had a few messages, had a few inquiries, went back to them on the phone, had some bookings come in, actually saw some money come into the account whilst I was away, and it was like this could work. You know, it's like this is actually running, this is happening, and this was before I had any clever processes in place. You know, this was literally unit number one, but cash flow was coming in, queries were being answered remotely whilst I'm on holiday with my wife and our daughter, and that maybe made me think, yeah, keep going. You know this could work. You know it's not just a crazy notion.

Speaker 1:

No, it is. It's lovely, just a crazy notion. No, it's lovely that and it's the fruits of your labor, as the old saying goes, because it is you build this, you put this together. You've gone out there and got the deals and I think it's remarkable, and this is why I always say to everybody, when it comes to property investing, if you know what you're doing and you go out there and do things in the right way.

Speaker 1:

It's very easy to lose money if you don't know what you're doing or you're giving the wrong advice. But if you know what you're doing, you can go out there and you can make a profitable business. You've just got to work at it and not quit, because there are landlords, there are people, there are agents out there that do want to work with people. They just don't know about you yet. So you've got to get out of the screen, from the rafters, so to speak, and build that business. So you got your first unit in April and then, I think about October time, you came and joined us on the Ultimate Service Accommodation Business Builder Program. So what made you want to come in and join us? When you were already set up? You already had service accommodation units.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think. I think when I joined you guys, I had four units um that has subsequently grown to fire um, but it was reaching a point where um I needed to systemize, I needed to put better processes in place, but I also needed to make some key business decisions that perhaps I hadn't given due consideration um to up until point.

Speaker 2:

So again, it was another moment of hit pause, you know before you get too big, too quick and it gets too much for you and, as you said, it's easy to lose money as well if you don't do things the right way. Hit the pause button and just make sure you're doing these things right. And some of my, some of my peer, peer group had previous dealings with you. So you know, I was aware of yourself, mark, and what you were doing personally, what you were helping others with. And, yeah, I suddenly saw you kind of getting involved in this essay space and you know, I was fortunate enough to be free on the one evening when you were kind of getting involved in this SA space and, um, you know what, you know was fortunate enough to to be free on the one evening when you were kind of given a little bit of um, you know, a bit of a bit of a demo to people and talking about it and introducing Graham as well, who, um, you know there's a lot of people out there who will claim to be experts, who will claim to you know, know everything, um, but actually scratch the surface a little bit more. Maybe then, maybe they're not quite the experts that they would lead you to believe, um, whereas graham, um, you know his level of experience and the detail and the depth that he's happy and prepared to go into um, um, that became clear and, you know, obvious to me, you know, straight away, literally in the space of an hour, hour and a half um session.

Speaker 2:

So it was like, okay, this, you know, sometimes things seem to happen and you think, ah, this, this is the right time. It's like it's happening for a reason here. Um, I need to hit the pause button and actually make sure I'm doing things right. So, yeah, got involved with yourself and yeah, between yourself and Graham, you've offered a lot of help and support in the months since then and it's good to know, just good to have that kind of go-to person, isn't it that you know that you will get a good, a right? You know, an honest answer, um, based on experience, um and knowledge. And, yeah, it was the right time to get involved.

Speaker 2:

So, um, you know, we had a call last night. There was a lot of people on it at various levels of you know. Their journey wasn't there. You know some from real newbies looking to get going to some. You know established people, you know looking for some, you know for their next big exciting step. But I think having that support, having that framework, I knew it was needed. I was just I felt it was there were gaps and I just wanted to kind of fill in some of those gaps.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, no, no, no. I think you're right with Graham and everything. I mean myself, don't say myself, but I don't class myself as a service accommodation expert. I am doing it, I am living and breathing it, but I'm still relatively green around the gills to it. So that is why I teamed up with somebody like Graham, because I'm exactly the same as you when I met Graham and I've known Graham a couple of years now, uh, and I know, you know, he's got a massive, massive service accommodation business. You know we're talking 140 odd units and growing all the time that sort of level of expertise, systemization, and he's not running around.

Speaker 1:

You know, he's in Kenya at the moment and he did the group coaching yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah he's monkeys playing in the garden of the villa that he's staying in, a hotel that he's staying in, or a hotel that he's staying in Phenomenal, you know, because he was struggling for Wi-Fi, wasn't he?

Speaker 1:

But he was still committed and he was still there and, like I say, his business is still working for him in the background with all the units he's got, and it is. You just have a conversation with him and you're like, wow, this guy lives and breathes it and and knows it. And, like you say, whether you're a seasoned serviced accommodation provider trying to take it to the next level or you're a complete and utter newbie looking to get started, he caters for you, doesn't he? I mean, we're both there helping and supporting and everything. But the level of expertise you know, he remembers where he was when he started and, equally, he'll help you systemize your business and get there now. So I mean, mean, I'm absolutely loving being a part of it as well, because I always say every day is a learning day and if you think you know everything, then you know who do you think you are at the end of the day. So it's really there to help systemize and build, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

yeah, exactly, and I think last night's call was a prime example. You know, I think I don't know I didn't count how many people there were on it. You know a large number of people joined at varying stages of their journey and you know I didn't, I didn't actually have loads, I didn't really have any questions or any kind of nagging things to go through with Graham myself last night. So I was very much a an observer and a listener. But what you get from that, you know you get little bits because someone asks a question oh yeah, I wasn't sure on that one actually or maybe something that you thought you were doing right. Someone will ask a question, have a chat and Graham will say, well, why aren't you doing this? And it makes you maybe slightly just reassess or tweak what you've got. So last night's call, I thought, was a prime example of that.

Speaker 2:

You know, I think myself the five deals that I've got to this point have all been direct to vendor. Um, I've had a lot and again, a lot of it comes back to confidence. You know, there's a lot about mindset and I've felt a lot more confident reaching out to landlords, talking to them directly. Um, and trust me, I've had a lot of nose and sort of hands in the face, but, um, I felt more confident dealing with the landlords one-to-one than I have walking into a letting agent and saying this is me, this is what I do, so, so, excuse that, so I've, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So our last night's call, uh, I think cindy uh mentioned about her the success she's had through a letting agent with, hopefully, her first deal coming up and you know she spoke around how she'd approached 20 agents and the confidence that she went in with. And it's almost like, yeah, whilst we're you could say I'm ahead of her in that journey. I've got five units. She's looking for a first, but she's actually, you know, she's got her. You know relationships building with letting agents in a way that I haven't yet. So I think you know, even at various stages of the journey we can learn from each other and you know that was definitely something that that I got from last night's call yeah, no, I thought it was brilliant as well.

Speaker 1:

There's loads of people that you know have deals now, are on a crest of getting their deals through, um. So it's all exciting stuff and, as as grand and myself say all the time, you know if you're winning, we're winning because at the end of the day, that's what we're here to help you do things. But it also does surprise me and it shouldn't do, but it does the amount of people that start our training and then say, bloody hell, there's a lot to service, the accommodation isn't there.

Speaker 1:

I didn't think because we've broken it down and systemize it in such a manner that you know it is step by step, process, handholding. But there's so many people that must be out there then because I don't know I don't really look at anybody else's on what they're doing but so many people out there are not giving you the full picture that we are and we're showing you everything. This is what you need to be a systemized business, and we'll show you warts and all because you need to know these things.

Speaker 2:

Otherwise, you know, later on down the line, you could run yourself into a lot of trouble, couldn't you? Oh, completely. And you know and that was the point that I was at when, you know, when I joined, you know, know the business had been running a little while the number of properties were growing, um, you know issues like vat, you know we all raise our eyebrows, but it's like that's a key business decision that you know you need to make. You're going to reach that threshold. You need to set yourself up, you know, with the right structure, um, and it's not necessarily one size fits all as well, you know.

Speaker 2:

You, depending on what you want to do now moving forward, you know what might be the right answer for me might not be the right answer for someone else, but to get that advice, to get that support, as you said, that's the real kind of under the bonnet stuff which not everyone is either wanting to or able to get into. But yeah, that's where the value add comes from. And yeah, it's not just about get a property, put it on Airbnb and sit back and watch the money come in. There's a little bit more involved to that, you know. I think we all recognise whatever aspect of property that we're in that phrase. Passive income is is nice, but it's um, it's not. It's not true in um in many cases no, I mean I.

Speaker 1:

I must say I don't think there's much, much passive about property full stop. There is still work that needs to be done. Whether you're managing it yourself or not, you're still gonna have to have a hand in what's happening and things like that there. But again, another thing that was brought up on a coaching call was linen. You know where can we?

Speaker 1:

store the linen and stuff like that to make it systemized, and it's things like that that you don't always think about, do you? You've got to have lots of different sets of bedding for you know one to be washed, one to be in the property, one to be ready to rock and roll but where do you stash it all and where do you store it all? So it was great to see Graham sort of go through the solutions and how he's built that up himself as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you know a little example like that you know where you kind of sort of start to. You know you get a little good nugget of information was last night, obviously. You know a couple of people kind of questioned on the linen front, uh, and they were talking about cleaners as well. Um, and you know I'll be honest, mark, at that point I was sitting there quite smug. I thought I've got a really good cleaning company who take care of my linen. They're doing a good job.

Speaker 2:

You know I'm paying for it, but they're doing a good job and, um, yeah, I've not got any problems. Thanks very much. And then, and then Graham threw in. Well, actually, maybe you don't as you grow, maybe you don't want to have just one cleaner or just one cleaning company, because they've kind of got you over a little bit of a barrel.

Speaker 2:

It's that key man dependency, almost isn't it, in that if suddenly you know they're a company, it doesn't matter if one of them falls ill. That's why I've engaged with them. They will be responsible, you know, in the case of illness and what have you. But if they suddenly decide to put their prices up to a big level, or if they suddenly decide the business isn't for them, that currently that will impact all of my units. So whereas I was quite smug thinking I've got this cleaning and linen lock sorted, it actually made me think, ok, maybe I do need to sort of just take a step back, reassess that, or certainly reassess it if I grow with more units. And again, it only comes from knowledge, such as Graham, but also input from the other, you know, from the other people on the call as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, from the community, from the community. Well, I'm conscious of your time and I know know it's always great to chat and everything and I like to ask people a few questions and stuff at the end for a bit of a sneaky thing.

Speaker 2:

uh, so if that's all right with you, I've just got some like quick fire questions to ask you well, these are the ones that I probably should have listened to your other podcasts a bit closer and got an idea of what's coming. But uh, no, this is rough and ready. Go for it let's do it.

Speaker 1:

Let's do it. So what's the best advice you've been given?

Speaker 2:

oh, oh, um, oh, it really is a tricky one. That, um, I think the one I I don't think it's advice that one particular person has given me, um, but I think a bit of a person has given me um, but I think a bit of a bit of a statement, bit of a mantra, I'm not sure, but I think the phrase work to live, don't live to work, for me is is kind of key, because I think for many years, um, yeah, I was almost living to work, or work was the sort of number one sort of priority for me, you know, and that comes back to things like time freedom, doesn't it?

Speaker 2:

But yeah that, for me, I think, is key. And you know, yeah, I think you can take it in a number of ways, you know, I think it comes back to enjoying what you're doing. You know if you're doing, you know if if you're, you know if, if work becomes too much of a chore and a burden, you're not enjoying it, well, yeah, it becomes tough. So I think, yeah, work to live, so that ultimately, it kind of gives you that freedom, it gives you that you know the time to do what you want.

Speaker 1:

Um, I think, I think that would perhaps be something that I would come back to very nice, very nice, if you could sit down and have dinner with three people that are alive. Who would you like to sit down and chat to?

Speaker 2:

oh, um, yeah, I might cheat a little bit on here, I might. Uh, I think I think one of those, one of those people I might actually go for two if I may, and it's an easy, obvious answer for me, but it's a very personal one in that neither my mum or my dad are around anymore. Haven't been for a while. So, yeah, if I could have both my mum and dad back for dinner. Yeah, I've got lots I'd like to show them, tell them, tell them about their grandchildren, um, and uh, yeah, a whole heap of questions and advice I'd be looking to get for get from my dad. Um, that's what, that's what dads are for. Um, so, yeah, if I could, if I can cheat and if I can make mum and dad one person, um, who else would I have?

Speaker 2:

Um, I think sports has always been a huge, huge passion of mine. Growing up, I loved snooker. That was one of the biggest things I got into when I was really young, and so I grew up loving the likes of Steve Davis and Jimmy White. But I think for the last 20 or so years, ronnie O'Sullivan has just been a real hero. I really I just if. If he's playing, he's on the telly. I just can't take my eyes off of it and my wife can't possibly understand how I could sit and watch snooker for an hour. I mean, what? Where's the excitement in that? But but for me, what he can, what he can do with a snooker cue, is lost. You know he can play left-handed and right-handed. You wouldn't notice the difference. I think he's amazing, um, and yeah, he's a real character with it. So I think, yeah, maybe ronnie o'sullivan would be one um, and I think I'll actually carry on the sport theme as well.

Speaker 2:

For me, um, because, yeah, football has been a, is always a passion of mine, and you might not like this answer, mark, because I think you support a red team from Manchester whereas I supported another red team from the North West. But, yeah, I think, whilst there's a number of players past and present, I could choose Jurgen Klopp of the Liverpool manager is just an absolute hero of mine. Again, when he talks, I just have to turn the volume up. And again, when he talks, I just have to turn the volume up. You know, I quite like it as well when he, when his talks, kind of starts to sort of stray into everyday life as well, not just about football. So yeah, very much a sport themed answer, I would say, rather than sort of perhaps you know business or property people, but but yeah, if I could have Jurgen Klopp around the table as well, along Ronnie O'Sullivan and my mum and dad, that would be quite an interesting dynamic, but, um, but I'd certainly have a smile on my face that's a great answer.

Speaker 1:

Great answer and really quite touching actually as well. So, no, it's nice, really really nice. And I have to say I got I got a lot of time for Jurgen Klopp. I think he's a fantastic manager and personality as well, you know, uh, and his way of thinking and things is brilliant and the way he's built you know Liverpool up to what they are. Obviously they're struggling at the moment, but they'd be stupid if they didn't stick with him and stuff like that, because he even I think even Ferguson used to say I'm worried about Liverpool when he joined because of what he was building and the ethos that he's brought into the team. And you know, anybody that's involved in business at the end of the day needs to look at how he's done that at Liverpool, because it'll help you grow any business as well.

Speaker 2:

Well, and I think it's. You know, a lot of people are becoming more and more aware of. You know, the importance of mindset and you know, I think some people might have criticised and joked Jürgen Klopp perhaps in his early days, but one of his big statements was all about turning doubters into believers. And you know, I think that's something that can be related to in any aspect of life. You know, be that sport, be that business, or be that purely your personal life. You know, becoming a doubter into a believer, I think, is um, is a, is a good thing. So, um, yeah, I'd, I'd enjoy a bit of dinner with you and clop, it'd be fun good stuff, good stuff.

Speaker 1:

Have you got a top three podcast?

Speaker 2:

um, oh, that's. That is a tough one. Hand on heart, I do listen to yours, perhaps as much or more than anyone else. I'll take that yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Number one. No, I think there's an awful lot. I've got one listener, come on. Sorry, I get notifications when you get a new one and everything. No, I think there's an awful lot in the property and business space whereby, um, I'm probably still at that point at the moment of flitting around from one to another almost trying to find, trying to find the ones that really kind of talk to me. Um, I, I will go.

Speaker 2:

I have, um, listened to ted's talks quite a lot and gone back on some of his previous ones as much, much as anything. I find him really entertaining. I might not always agree with him or think what he's saying is advice that I can follow, but he's entertaining, if nothing else. You know other than that, probably some again non-business related ones, such as, I think is it Rob Beckett and Josh Widdicombe talking about their parenting. Hell, I find things like that quite amusing and sometimes necessary to sort of take you away from the you know. So you're not thinking too much in the sort of business sense, or have you? So something you know quite amusing, like those guys is, you know, appeals to me certainly.

Speaker 2:

Brilliant, brilliant, and have you got a top three books um, oh, again, I think probably the one that I, if I think about books, both in the sort of business sense and then maybe sort of, you know, outside of business as well I think the one I'm not going to give any new answers here and everyone's going to say, oh, yeah, that's obvious. But I think a year or so back rich dad, poor dad I hadn't read it before and it was clearly one that was like, yeah, everyone talks about it, everyone mentions it. So I'm like I've got to read this and, yeah, it can shift your mindset a little bit. You know, it starts to make making looking at things in a slightly different way, which are abundantly obvious now. But you talk to a number of people you know, just in terms of, about things, about, like you know, assets and liabilities and what have you. Um, yeah, I think, uh, that that was definitely one which um has probably spoke to me more than others.

Speaker 2:

Um, and at the moment, in the area of serviced accommodation, the books and there are a few books that I'm really dipping in and out of a lot are actually the books by Mark Simpson and Boostly, who are very much. Mark's worked in serviced accommodation for years and he's all around taking away the dependency from the otas so that if airbnb suddenly blocked you, you know, kicked you off next week, um, it wouldn't be the end of your business. It's all around sort of promoting your own brand but particularly bringing up direct bookings, um, and at the moment I'm reading I'm not implementing, but it's, you know, that it's a case of trying to build that knowledge and then start to apply it. Um, so, yeah, I think the Boostly stuff by Mark Simpson, um, outside of that, you know, in a non sort of business sense, I've never really been one for for fiction, if I'm honest. It's just never really spoke to me.

Speaker 2:

But I've always quite liked autobiographies. Um, and again, going back to sport, the, the two autobiographies I've probably enjoyed more than any because I think they've shown how much they're real fighters. Um, there's actually andre agassi, uh, his autobiography years back now, um, but I picked it up a couple of times and reread it. It was phenomenal. Um, and I I remember, on my honeymoon, many, a few years back, reading Luis Suarez's autobiography, and he's a proper street fighter to sort of hear what he'd gone through, you know, the commitment that he had shown to get to the level you know, to being the footballer that he has been was phenomenal. And again, that can be related to no matter what your walk of life. You don't have to be a football fan to actually kind of, I guess, respect that level of commitment. But perhaps it's, you know, not something that you know everyone's seen. We all just look at him and think he's a horrible man who bites his opponent, but you know he had a tough life before that.

Speaker 1:

I think it's under the covers, isn't it? Everybody's got their own demons and stuff like that. But, of course, being a public figure, that is all you see. But you know he's obviously got his own issues, which is why he's done stuff like that. But you know it's whether you or not. You want to understand those, but they're really good picks as well. They're really good picks. Thank you very much. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on Nigel absolute pleasure and I mean just from my perspective.

Speaker 1:

Maybe if anybody was thinking of joining the Ultimate Service Accommodation Business Builder with myself and Graham, what would you say to them?

Speaker 2:

I'd say do it is the simple, quick answer and probably I think what I would back that up with is it's a good decision. It would be a, you know, a good thing to do, no matter where you are at in your essay journey, and what I mean by that is, you know, we've got some people who are literally at the start, looking for um, help to get started, um, and, and you guys can offer that and the community can offer that. You know it's sometimes it's good to. I think it's good to be in a community where people are six months, 12 months ahead of where you are now, because you can almost try and kind of cling to their coattails a little bit. So I think if you're at the beginning, great.

Speaker 2:

If you're a little bit further ahead, like I was when I joined, you know, know I had four units, but you know it gives you that structure and the support that on your own, you know, or you know trying to get some of the free advice that's out there you might struggle with. And yeah, there are some people on there who are looking to do some. You know it's not all just about rent to SA. You know, there are some people looking to sort of buy their own units, looking to take advantage of the tax efficiencies that um serviced accommodation offers, um and again. That's all areas where Graham's got the experience and he can help um. So I think, no matter where you're at on your SA journey, um it's, it's going to help you and support you, you know. Move further forward brilliant.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you for that. That's great stuff, and let me just say it's great to have you as part of the community as well, and I'm really looking forward to helping you, as is Graham, and supporting you this year and in whatever your next projects are. Whatever next properties are as well. So if anybody wants to reach out to you, nigel, what's the best way to find you? Properties are as well. So if anybody wants to reach out to you, nigel, what's?

Speaker 2:

the best way to find you, tell you what. Yeah, that's it, didn't discuss that. One of the things I've got to get a lot better on this year is is social media. I really don't have a great deal of of social media presence Again, a bit of a confidence thing really in terms of putting myself out there. But but, yeah, you can. You can find me individually, nigel Pinder, on Facebook. Reach out to me that way, you know, happy to sort of, you know, make some sort of new contacts that way. Yeah, that's probably the easiest way at this point.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, brilliant, brilliant. Thank you very much. Well, as I say once again, it's been a great pleasure to have you on. Hopefully I can have you back in the future, when you've got a few more units or we're doing something a bit different, and check up on you see how you're getting on. That would be really, really good. And if you are interested to find out a bit more about the Ultimate Service Accommodation Business Builder, if you head over to thepropertyunleashedcom, you can click on the links there, and, of course, we have some free tools and resources for you, as well as more information or just reach out to me. So I hope you've enjoyed this episode as much as I've enjoyed recording it. Remember, keep focusing on your vision, keep chasing those goals and I'll see you on the next episode. You take care and bye for now.